FINANCE [CIVIL CONTINGENCIES]. (Hansard, 7 July 1920)

§ The FINANCIAL SECRETARY to the TREASURY (Mr. Baldwin)
I have put down a new Clause to the Finance Bill on page 1,271 of the Order Paper, which gives power to extend for twelve months the term within which sums advanced under the Civil Contingencies Fund Act of last year may be repaid. The reason that we have to ask for these powers is that, contrary to expectations when the Act was passed last year, the control of food has continued longer than we thought it would be continued, and therefore money will still be required for certain food purchases extending beyond the period when the permission accorded by this Act of Parliament would come to an end. There is no question of any fresh money being employed. It is only proposed under this Clause to retain the use of the money that has already been issued. I was in some little difficulty as to the best way to bring this matter before the House. It could have been done by including the Civil Contingencies Fund Act among the expiring laws to be continued, but I thought that by giving effect to our desire by a Clause in the Finance Bill it would be much the best and most straightforward way of bringing it before the Committee for discussion, when the whole matter might be entered into and explained. This Resolution is, as hon. members are aware, a purely formal proceeding which it is necessary to get through before we can discuss the Clause to which I have alluded. The time for discussion of that Clause, of course, will be when we come, to the new Clauses of the Bill, which I hope will be early next week. I hope that with these few words the Committee will be satisfied to let me have this Resolution preparatory to the discussion which will take place on the Clause itself.

§ Sir D. MACLEAN
As I understand it, this is a formal Resolution to be the basis of a new Clause which my right hon. Friend will present when we reach that stage of the Finance Bill, and that then we shall have the fullest Parliamentary opportunity of discussing the merits or demerits, as the case may be, of this proposal. I have no opposition to offer to. that proposal. I would like to draw your attention, Mr. Chairman, and perhaps. you would report it to the proper quarter, to the fact that we have constantly to refer to the Statutes of 1919, sometimes, as in this case, without any warning, and that there is no copy of the Statutes of 1919 available on the Table. More than once it has caused us very great inconvenience, and I thought you might perhaps represent this lack in the proper quarter.

§ The CHAIRMAN
I am informed that although the bound volume for 1919 is not yet issued, the Statutes are available on the Table.

§ Sir D. MACLEAN
They are not here.

§ The CHAIRMAN
I am informed that. they are on the Table.

§ Sir F. BANBURY
I do not want to pursue the subject if what the right hon. Member for Peebles (Sir D. Maclean) says is correct, namely, that we shall have an opportunity of considering this Resolution when it is embodied in a Clause in the Finance Bill, but sitting in this corner I was unable to hear the explanation given by my right hon. Friend (Mr. Baldwin). I should like to know, and I think we ought to know, why it is necessary to, extend by one year the period within which these sums have got to be repaid.

§ Mr. BALDWIN
I explained it to the Committee.

§ Sir F. BANBURY
I beg my right hon. Friend's pardon, but I did not hear him. May I with very great submission say that I am not alone in this matter, and that those of us who sit up here rarely hear what right hon. Gentlemen on the Front Bench say? [HON. MEMBERS: "Speak up!"] Apparently we are all tarred with the same brush. I was complaining that not only I, but several hon. Members who sit near me are unable to 1487 hear what the right hon. Gentlemen on the Front Bench say. I did not hear a word of what my right hon. Friend said, and now hon. Members say that they cannot hear me, but I venture to submit that it is not of so much importance. If I ant not asking too much, would my right hon. Friend say why this period is to be extended another year?

§ Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY
I understand that this money has not been expended, but is intended to remain at the disposal of the Departments for another twelve months in case they want to use it. Why should not this money go back into the Exchequer, and the Departments concerned present another Estimate in the usual manner? That would give us more control over this money. There is always the temptation, if the Departments have the handling of this money for another year, for a certain official laxity, which we should at all costs endeavour to check.

§ Mr. BALDWIN
I should like to apologise to the right hon. Baronet, but I think the real reason he did not hear me was that there was a general conversation going on. I did my best to speak against it. I attempted to explain the reason for this new Clause. The food purchases, mainly in sugar, are being continued very much longer than was anticipated when the Civil Contingencies Act was passed last year. Therefore, we need to retain the power of utilising the capital at present employed for food purchases as long as may be necessary, and the formal and technical way of giving us that power is to move a Clause in the terms of that which I have upon the Paper. I propose, in the course of the Debate on that Clause, to give the fullest particulars, which, no doubt, my right hon. Friend will desire to have. My hon. and gallant Friend (Lieut.-Commander Kenworthy) would not have put his question if he had been familiar with the working of the Civil Contingencies Fund. The money that is required for such objects as food purchases may be wanted at a moment's notice, and when the House is not sitting. It is really a bank for the purpose of financing that kind of transaction, but on every occasion when money is demanded for a purpose of that kind a Minute is laid before this House, so that 1488 any hon. Member who has any complaint to make with regard to any particular payment has an opportunity of raising the matter in the House.