§ 7. Condition as to marriage, relation to head of family, parentage, issue.
§ Mr. KILEYI beg to move, in paragraph 7, to leave out the word "parentage."
My object in moving this Amendment is again to press the Minister in charge to reconsider what I regard as a matter of considerable importance. I understand that he has agreed to waive the necessity for parents having to di close whether their children are born in wedlock or not, but, when it comes to the question of an adult, he insists upon the adult stating whether he was or was not born in wedlock. I have endeavoured to ascertain from the right hon. Gentleman what is his object in insisting upon this. As I have already said, in the case of children solid and definite reasons can be urged for the information being forthcoming, but why on earth he insists and persists in demand-that, when a person is of adult age, he must disclose whether he was born in wedlock or not, I cannot understand. There seems so little reason for it that I can only fear that it must be a case of being obstinate or something of that kind. If the Minister could give us some solid reason for it, one's point of view might be altered, but in the absence of any solid or definite reason I must press my Amendment.
§ 7.0 P.M.
§ Dr. ADDISONI did not rise when I was last asked on this matter, because it has already been discussed twice, and I did not think I was called upon to repeat the arguments which had already been advanced. There are two reasons why it will be very useful to have these words in. We have no desire to frame the Regulations in such a way that this question of legitimacy or illegitimacy of adults will be brought in. It is desirable to have information as to what portion of the population is of alien parentage or alien born, and 121 there is the question of the relation of the person to the other parties named in the Schedule. If he is a parent, then their dependency becomes established. Without such information any proper statistics as to the degree of dependence of the juvenile population could not be extracted. I will promise my hon. Friend that we will make the Regulations so that the past parentage will not be dug up. No one wants to do that. We want to know what the condition of the young population is, and we want statistics as to dependency. It is solely for that object that the word "parentage" is put in.
Dr. MURRAYFrom the public health point of view, it is absolutely necessary that we should know whether children under a certain age are legitimate or illegitimate, but I cannot see what reason can be alleged for demanding that information in regard to adults.
§ Dr. ADDISONI said we do not want that, but it is important to know their nationality.
Dr. MURRAYI heard the right hon. Gentleman say it was important to know whether they were born in wedlock or born in Germany. If it is put in without intending to be acted upon, I have no objection. I do not mind how you disturb the feelings of undesirable aliens, but I do not see what help will be got from any public health point of view, from a criminal point of view, or from a social point of view, and I think it is quite unnecessary to ask questions of adults as to their being born in wedlock, or otherwise. I shall be glad if the right hon. Gentleman could show any useful purpose, but I have not heard any yet.
§ Dr. ADDISONThe word "parentage" applies not only to adults but to the people mentioned in the Schedule.
Dr. MURRAYI am afraid I cannot pursue the discussion. I am at a loss to know who it to be included in the statistics. The inquisition into domestic affairs is getting a little too exacting, and I do not see any useful purpose that can be served by it.
§ Mr. D. HERBERTIt is necessary again to call the right hon. Gentleman's attention to the fact that the Bill is not providing merely for the census which he 122 is proposing to take next year, and therefore it is utterly useless to tell the House that he does not intend to ask these questions. Still less is it any good for him to do that when the hon. and gallant Gentle man. (Lieut.-Colonel Fremantle) only a minute or two ago urged that he wanted every possible information he could get as to the legitimacy or illegitimacy of anyone returned in the census. The hon. and gallant Gentleman may be occupying the post at present occupied by the right hon. Gentleman in five years, and we shall then have everyone being asked what his or her parentage is. The right hon. Gentleman, in the Committee stage, appealed to my hon. and learned Friend opposite, when he gave way with regard to one part of the Clause, to let him have the rest of it. I do not think that is an appeal which this House on this occasion ought to give way to too readily. The fact of the matter is that the right hon. Gentleman's advisers or draughtsman have drafted a Bill of such an extensive and inquisitorial nature that, he has been absolutely unable to defend it and carry it through the House, and he has, with a very good grace, except in the particular instance, given way on a number of very important points. When the question of parentage was being discussed someone asked whether the right hon. Gentleman wanted it or not. We gathered, at any rate, from a shake of his head that he did not want it, and he has now told us be is not going to ask these things except in so far as he wants them in regard to children. Why, therefore, could not this particular question of parentage be restricted to children? The right hon. Gentleman gets what he wants in effect by the other part of it by getting the enumeration of every other child who is an inmate of the house, although perhaps not the isue of marriage of persons living in the house.
§ Dr. ADDISONMay I make a suggestion? On the understanding that the necessary questions relating to parentage will be included under Item 8, I will then omit the word "here" and insert "any inquiry relating to the parentage under Section 8 of the Schedule." That ought to meet my hon. Friend.
§ Mr. HERBERTI am very much obliged to the right hon. Gentleman.
§ Amendment agreed to.
123§ Bill accordingly read the Third time, and passed, with Amendments.