HC Deb 31 October 1919 vol 120 cc1076-8

(1) it shad be lawful for the Lord Lieutenant, with toe concurrence of the Treasury, to make orders as to the pay, pensions, and allowances of members of either police force, and by any such order to prescribe rates and scales of pay, pensions, and allowances (including conditions applicable thereto) as respects all the members of the force t, winch the Order relates or as respects any rank, class or grade in the force, and, subject to the provisions of the Order, any rates, scales, and conditions thereby prescribed shall have effect as from the date therein specified in substitution for the rates, scales, and conditions in force immediately before the making of the Order, whether such last-mentioned rates, scales, or conditions were prescribed by Statute or any previous Order under this Section or otherwise.

(2) A draft of any Order proposed to be made under this Section shall be submitted to the representative body or bodies representing any rank or ranks affected, and before making the Order the Lord Lieutenant shall consider any representations made by such body or bodies.

(3) Any Order made under this Section shall be laid before both Houses of Parliament within forty days next after it is made if Parliament is then sitting, or if not, within forty days after the commencement of the then next ensuing Session, and if an address is presented to His Majesty by either of those Houses within the next subsequent fourteen days on which that House has sat next after any such Order is laid before it praying that any such Order may be annulled, His Majesty may thereupon by Order in Council annul the same, and the Order so annulled shall forthwith become void, but without prejudice to the validity of any proceedings or acts which may, in the meantime, have been taken or done under the Order.

Section two of the Rules Publication Act, 1893, shall not apply to any such Order.

(4) Subject as aforesaid, any Order made under this Section shall have effect as if enacted in this Act, but may be revoked or varied as occasion requires by any subsequent Order so made.

Mr. JELLETT

I beg to move, at the end of Sub-section (1), to add the words Provided always that any person who was a member of either police force on the first day of April, nineteen hundred and nineteen, shall be deemed to be a member of such force for the purposes of this Section. This is really a drafting Amendment, and asks for no further powers than those already found in the Clause as it stands. It simply makes the position clearer to a number of persons, and tells them where they actually stand. The Amendment makes the position in Ireland the same as that in England and Scotland, and I gather that is the idea of the Government in connection with the whole Bill. The Commission which reported on this matter mentioned the 1st of April as the date to be taken. All that the Amendment does is to specify that date. It gives no further powers to make Orders.

Mr. HENRY

I have considered this Amendment, and am in a position to accept it. It carries out exactly the date fixed by the Desborough Commission, and is therefore really a drafting Amendment.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. HENRY

I beg to move, in Subsection (3), to leave out the word "two" ["Section two"], and to insert instead thereof the word "one."

This is an Amendment to correct a drafting error. The Bill deals with the publication of a draft Order, and proposes that. Section 2 of the Rules Publication Act shall not apply to any such Order. We have provided otherwise for the publication of the Order, -and to dispense with the other publication, in order to accelerate the payment of the increased wages to the members of the bodies concerned.

Amendment agreed to.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill."

Captain CRAIG

When the Bill was before the House on Second Reading, my colleagues on these benches made a very strong appeal to the Chief Secretary to do something to extend the benefits of this Bill to old police pensioners, and I understand that the Chief Secretary expressed himself as being in entire sympathy, but that, as usual, the difficulty lay with the Treasury. I would ask the right hon. and learned Gentleman to let us know whether any interview has taken place with the Treasury, and, if so, whether the Chief Secretary has had any success with that body?

Mr. HENRY

My hon. and gallant Friend I am sure has noted the report of the Chief Secretary's remarks. My right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary has not had the opportunity of conferring with the Treasury upon the question. Hon. Members will understand that it is a difficult and complicated question and my right hon. Friend hopes in a day or two to have that opportunity. In the meantime I cannot add anything to the very clear statement he made on the subject or to the undertaking which he gave to the House and which will be fully carried out.

Question put, and agreed to.

Clauses 5 (Amendment of 5 and 6 Geo. 5, c. 32)6 (Amendment of 6 and; Geo.:, c. 59, s. 2), and 7 (Penalty on Unauthorised Use of Police Uniform)ordered to stand part of the Bill.