HC Deb 20 November 1919 vol 121 cc1130-2
70. Mr. HOGGE

asked the Prime Minister whether and, if so, when he will make a statement to the House as to the Government's proposals for the future management of the railways?

The PRIME MINISTER

I assume that the hon. Member is referring to the Railway Advisory Committee which it is proposed to set up. The question is still under discussion. My right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport is now discussing with the railway companies and the railway trades unions the composition of the Committee, and he will no doubt be able to make a statement at an early date.

Mr. HOGGE

May I ask whether the arrangement contained in the speech of my right hon. Friend the Member for Derby (Mr. Thomas) gives the Government scheme, and if it does not does the right hon. Gentleman propose to give the House of Commons the Government scheme before any private Member of the House gives it to the public?

Mr. THOMAS

Before the right hon. Gentleman answers, may I ask whether it was not in accord with all the negotiations with the Government that the men affected should be informed of them in the usual way?

The PRIME MINISTER

I am afraid I have not had the opportunity of reading the right hon. Gentleman's (Mr. Thomas) speech, and therefore I do not know what its exact terms were. There is no secret of the fact that certain proposals were put before the trade union representatives, and they are now the subject of discussion. The moment the discussions come to an end and an arrangement is arrived at it will be communicated to the House. I do hope the course of the negotiations will not be imperilled by premature discussions. There is a real desire on the part of the Railway Executive and the managers of the companies and the trade unions to come to an understanding on this subject.

Mr. HOGGE

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is increasing dissatisfaction amongst Members of this House at Government negotiations being disclosed outside the House before they are discussed by Members of this House?

Mr. TERRELL

May I ask if the House is to be given an opportunity of considering any scheme for joint control or joint management by trade unions in railway matters before any definite decision is arrived at?

The PRIME MINISTER

I have already stated that the moment there is a provisional arrangement entered into with the trade unions and the Railway Executive on the subject, that will be submitted to the House of Commons, and if the House wishes to have a discussion it can do so.

Mr. J. JONES

Are trade union officials to be barred from reporting to their members the results of negotiations with employers, whether Government or private?

74. Colonel GRETTON

asked the Prime Minister why the heads of the agreement between the Government and the representatives of the National Union of Railwaymen which appeared in the newspapers were not announced by a Minister to Parliament?

The PRIME MINISTER

The Government have not issued any statement on this subject, and the matter is still subject to negotiation.

Colonel GRETTON

Do I understand that no agreement has been reached, and that the statements made by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Derby (Mr. Thomas) are premature and unauthorised?

The PRIME MINISTER

I did not see the statements made by the hon. Member, and therefore I cannot contradict them.

Mr. THOMAS

Will the right hon. Gentleman say whether there is any breach of confidence or any departure from usual trade union negotiations for the leader of the men to convey to the men an offer from the Government, and, if so, and furthermore, what hope would there be of the leader being able to carry out the proposals unless he took an opportunity of recommending them to the members of the union?

The PRIME MINISTER

It is very difficult to express an opinion on statements which I have not seen. I fully realise the difficulty the right hon. Gentleman has in negotiating on behalf of hundreds of thousands of men, and I have no doubt that from time to time he has to take them into consultation before final decisions are taken. I should be very reluctant to express an opinion, and I hope the House will not press me to do so. They are very difficult negotiations, and I do not want in the least to jeopardise them by any declarations which might prejudice the matter.