HC Deb 13 November 1919 vol 121 cc483-5
14. Captain W. BENN

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland if he will state for the past year, or for any convenient period, the number of persons convicted in Ireland under the Crimes Act or under the Defence of the Realm Act, specifying the Section under which they have been convicted and the punishment inflicted for the offence?

16 Lord HENRY CAVENDISH - BENTINCK

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland (1) whether he is aware that the Act prohibiting street collections without permit did not apply to Ireland as originally introduced; whether there have been any cases of bogus collections against which the Act was directed; if not, whether it was extended to Ireland as a convenient method of summarily punishing Sinn Feiners for their political opinions and preventing them from raising money for propagating those opinions;

(2) whether he will state how many persons in Ireland, in each of the last three years, have been tried by a single resident magistrate out of Petty Sessions; how many of these were men, boys, women, or girls; how many had been previously tried for the same offence and discharged; how many in each year were bound to the peace or bound to good behaviour; how many were sentenced to gaol for refusing to give bail or refusing to recognise the Court; whether this procedure was adopted in consequence of the large percentage of cases dismissed by the magistrates in Petty Sessions;

(3) whether he will state how many per sons are now in prison for political or seditious offences; how many of these were sentenced by court-martial, civil Courts, Crimes Acts Courts, or a single resident magistrate; and how many were, respectively, for speeches inciting to crime, speeches calculated to cause disaffection, being suspected of intention to commit an illegal act, drilling, possessing arms, carrying arms, street collecting, or other new offences created under the exigencies of the War?

Mr. MACPHERSON

The information asked for in these questions could not be given without a minute examination, of the circumstances of each case, and I have already stated that such minute investigations would impose so great amount of work on the already overburdened police in Ireland that I could not ask them to bear this additional burden. I have already prepared and published a list of outrages during the last three years, and, if desired, I will publish this list in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Captain BENN

If the right hon. Gentleman has the information from which to put his side of the case, why cannot he give the House of Commons the information as to how many people in Ireland have been locked up, or for whom warrants have been issued under the powers of the Defence of the Realm Act?

Mr. MACPHERSON

I have given the fullest possible and most unbiassed information I have. If the House still presses me to ask my overburdened police to bring these under investigation, of course we are bound to do it. But I refuse unless the House wishes me to do it.

Lord H. CAVENDISH-BENTINCK

Is not the latest achievement of the Irish Government the imprisonment of a couple of girls for selling flags on behalf of the Irish language?

Mr. MacVEAGH

Does the right hon. Gentleman mean to convoy to the House that he has not got this information asked for in the question?

Mr. MACPHERSON

I said this had already imposed a great deal of work upon the police.

Mr. MacVEAGH

That is not an answer to the question put. I have asked him: Does he represent to the House that he has not got the figures which are asked for in these questions?

Mr. MACPHERSON

If any unbiassed Member of the House will look at the list to which I have referred I think he will be satisfied.

Captain BENN

Would the right hon. Gentleman, if I specify certain sections of D.O.R.A., tell me how many convictions have taken place under them?

Mr. MACPHERSON

I will do my best if the hon. and gallant Gentleman puts a specific question. But these questions are rambling over most difficult and most minute investigations, and if there is anything in them at all it means that the overburdened police of Ireland would have to collect the information.

Mr. MacVEAGH

Have the overburdened police anything to do with the preparation of statistics?

Mr. MACPHERSON

They certainly have.

Mr. MacVEAGH

Oh, they have, have they?