HC Deb 03 November 1919 vol 120 cc1126-8
79. Major BIRCHALL

asked what were the average wages paid to moulders for the four weeks preceding the strike; and how many men are affected, directly or indirectly, in the engineering trades by the strike?

Sir R. HORNE

There are no statistics available to show the actual average earnings of piece- and time-workers in the period of four weeks preceding- the strike. The minimum weekly time rates (inclusive of war wages) recognised in sonic of the principal industrial districts by the workers' organisations ranged from 67s. 6d. to 73s. 6d., with a bonus of 12 per cent. on earnings in addition. In some of the smaller centres the rates were rather lower. It is estimated, on the basis of such information as is available, that the total number of workpeople in the ironfounding, engineering, and shipbuilding trades on strike or thrown out of work in consequence of the strike is approximately 100,000. In addition, a considerable number of workpeople are on short time.

Sir E. CARSON

Are these men who have been thrown out of work through no fault of their own entitled to out-work donation

Sir R. HORNE

The same rule is applied in connection with out-of-work donation as is applied in connection with the Unemployment Benefit Insurance Act. People who belong to the same establishment as those who are on strike do not receive benefit. Those who belong to other establishments do receive benefit.

Sir E. CARSON

If it is not the man's fault why should he be penalised for being in the same establishment?

Sir R. HORNE

Some rule has to be made. That was thought to be the most convenient. The argument as to the merits would take a very long time.

Mr. J. DAVISON

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that crane drivers working in a foundry, receiving instructions from the engineering portion of the establishment, are in receipt of unemployment donation, while labourers working in the foundry are not in receipt of unemployment donation?

Sir R. HORNE

I cannot answer as to the facts which the hon. Gentleman has put, but these matters all go before the Umpire who decides the case brought before him. lie has recently decided as a general principle that any department of an establishment affected by the strike which is thrown out of work by the strike can be regarded as a distinct establishment by itself, even though it is under the same ambit and in the same establishment, and may be treated as a separate establishment for the purpose of unemployment donation. That is the general principle which he has laid down.

Mr. LUNN

Does tire right hon. Gentleman mean by establishment a separate department of the same firm? If so, is he aware that in Wakefield no payment is being made to men who are not connected with the department which is on strike but are in another department of the same factory?

Sir R. HORNE

It rests with the Umpire to decide each case according to its merits. Of course we cannot go into every individual instance.