HC Deb 24 June 1919 vol 117 cc17-20
25. Major NEWMAN

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether the estimate, amounting to about £106,000,000, of the increased cost of running the railways under Government control to 31st March, 1920, as compared with the year 1913, includes any cost of making good maintenance in arrears and provision for extra wear and tear; and, if the above estimate be accepted as a reasonable forecast, will he say what will be the total sum to be borne by the taxpayer after the shareholder has received his guaranteed dividend in respect of the year ending 31st March, 1920?

The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the BOARD of TRADE (Mr. Bridge-man)

The estimate of increased expenditure referred to is an estimate of the effect of increased cost of labour and materials, and does not include any allowance for abnormal maintenance work. The amount that will be borne by the taxpayers under the Government agreement with the railways does not depend solely on the increased cost of railway working, and I am not prepared at present to say what it is likely to be. I may add that railway dividends are not guaranteed by the Government, but the railways are guaranteed the aggregate net receipts of 1913.

Sir E. CARSON

Can my right hon. Friend say whether before the Transport Bill comes on for Report we can have accurate figures of the estimated loss on the railways, subject to present conditions in regard to necessary expenditure?

Mr. BRIDGEMAN

That question is under consideration.

Mr. BOTTOMLEY

In arriving at these figures can the hon. Gentleman tell me whether the War Office has been charged with the full rates for carrying troops and munitions?

Mr. BRIDGEMAN

I am not clear what the hon. Gentleman means by full rates. Are they the rates chargeable under the Act?

Mr. BOTTOMLEY

The current rate. The 50 per cent. increase.

Mr. BRIDGEMAN

I do not think so. I will inquire, and let my hon. Friend know. But I think the War Office are charged according to the provisions of the-Cheap Trains Act.

Mr. BOTTOMLEY

Does the hon. Gentleman not see in that case that putting the entire loss upon the shoulders of the travelling public is putting a special tax upon that public as distinguished from the whole of the country?

Mr. BRIDGEMAN

I see the point,

Mr. BOTTOMLEY

I am much obliged to the hon. Gentleman for that!

26. Major NEWMAN

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether the Railway Executive Committee have been able to form any estimate of the total revenue that will be earned by the railways for the year ending 31st March, 1920, in respect of goods-train traffic and passenger-train traffic; if so, how do these amounts compare with the year 1913; and are they made on the assumption that the travelling public are still charged a 50 per cent. increase and the charge for goods traffic is not increased?

Mr. BRIDGEMAN

My right hon. Friend is consulting the Railway Executive to see if it is possible to frame a satisfactory estimate, but is not very sanguine that any useful result will be obtained.

Sir E. CARSON

Are we to take it that before the statements in reference to the Transport Bill were given to this House that no estimate was made of the realities of the situation?

Mr. BRIDGEMAN

The estimate to which ray hon. and learned Friend refers was not made by the Board of Trade, but it is naturally one that, to a large extent, is a matter of opinion.

Mr. BILLING

While the Government are making up their minds in this connection, will the hon. Gentleman represent to the Department that hundreds and thousands of small children are prevented, owing to the increase of fare, from going into the country?

Mr. BRIDGEMAN

That does not arise on the question, but I am doing all I can to get the fullest possible facilities for the children.

27. Major NEWMAN

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether the accounts for the railways working under Government control have only been partially completed for the year 1917; will he say when the audit for 1917 will be completed and that for 1918 undertaken; and in what way will the result of the audit for these two years be made known to the shareholders and to the taxpayer?

Mr. BRIDGEMAN

Railway companies' accounts for 1917 and 1918 have already been completed as required by the Railway Companies (Accounts and Returns) Act, 1911, so far as that Act now applies. Any sums which, as the result of the further investigation of those accounts on behalf of the Government, may be found to be payable to or by the railway companies would be brought into account later. They will be published in due course.

Major NEWMAN

Will the hon. Gentleman answer the last part of my question; in what way will the result of the audit for these two years be made known?

Mr. BRIDGEMAN

I have said it will be brought into the accounts later and published in due course.

Major NEWMAN

When is "due course"?

Mr. BRIDGEMAN

When all these things are brought into account.