HC Deb 02 June 1919 vol 116 cc1653-6
14 and 15. Brigadiar-General Sir OWEN THOMAS

asked the President of the Board of Trade (1) if he is aware that, at an interview at the Admiralty on the 21st March last, it was admitted that an official of the Cunard Company, whose case was not covered by the War Risks Association, received a compassionate allowance from the Board of Trade, and that in the case of Mr. Ferber, who was in the same position as the above-mentioned officer, the City of Dublin Steam Packet Company was directed to make an application for a similar allowance, and was led to believe that the application would be treated in the same way, as it was admitted it ought to be. and that the company has now been informed by the Board of Trade that it has no fund from which special allowances can be made in such cases; (2) whether his attention has been drawn to the speech of the chairman of the City of Dublin Steam Packet Company at its last half-yearly meeting, in which it was stated that the "Leinster" was lost owing to the culpable negligence of those responsible for her safety; whether the Government is now prepared to hold a sworn judicial inquiry into all the circumstances attending the loss of this mail packet; and whether the Government is prepared to pension adequately the dependants of the officers, sailors, soldiers, and civilians who lost their lives in consequence of the torpedoing of the vessel, to compensate fully the survivors for their loss, and to pension adequately the dependants of the officers and crew of the packet, and those of the officials of the company who were on board at the time of the disaster?

Sir A. GEDDES

I have carefully inquired into the facts embodied in these two questions, and I find that the dependants of all officers, sailors, soldiers, and civilians employed by the Government who lost their lives when the "Leinster" was sunk have received such compensation for their loss as financial grants can give. Similarly the dependants of the officers and crew of the ship have been compensated. These financial payments have been made under the compensation and pension schemes administered by the Board of Trade and Ministry of Pensions respectively. The Government are unable to accept the obligation to compensate the dependants of other persons who lost their lives. The statement that the dependants of an official of the Cunard Company who lost his life at sea through enemy action, received compensation from the Board of Trade is both inaccurate and misleading. The Cunard Company official was at the time of his death engaged by the Director of Transports and Shipping to go over to France to superintend arrangements there for the disembarkation of American troops. The pension to his dependants was granted by the Admiralty under the Injuries in War (Compensation) Scheme. Mr. Ferber was an official of the City of Dublin Steam Packet Company, and was travelling on the business of the company.

While the Government have every sympathy with all the dependants of those who lost their lives at sea, not only when the "Leinster" was sunk, I do not see how it can be expected that the dependants of those who were not members of the crew and were not on Government business should receive compensation at the expense of the taxpayer. The Government does not consider that an inquiry at this date would serve any useful purpose.

Sir O. THOMAS

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that Mrs. Williams, widow of the chief fireman of the "Leinster"—who would have been getting £5 a week if he had been alive to-day—is at the present time getting 4s. l0d. a week? How can she live on 4s. l0d. a week? I have had no reply to the first part of question 14 as to the allegation of culpable negligence of the Government in not looking after a ship which was carrying 500 troops per day.

Sir A. GEDDES

I was not aware of the sum allotted to any of the dependants, but if the hon. Member will provide me with information about any special cases of hardship I will most certainly at once have them fully investigated, and see if anything can be done. In regard to the first part of question 14, the Government cannot admit any negligence.

Captain REDMOND

Will the right hon. Gentleman kindly reply to the second part of my hon. Friend's second question as to whether he proposes to hold a sworn judicial inquiry into all the circumstances attending the loss of this mail packet?

Sir A. GEDDES

I am sorry if my hon. and gallant Friend did not hear my reply: The Government does not consider that an inquiry at this date would serve any useful purpose.

Captain REDMOND

Why should there be differentiation in the Government attitude towards a ship owned by an Irish company which has been torpedoed by enemy action and a Cunard liner? If there was an inquiry into the case of the "Lusitania," why should there not be an inquiry into the case of the "Leinster"?

Mr. WIGNALL

Will the right hon. Gentleman have a Return made of the whole list of pensions to the dependants who lost their lives in the "Leinster"? We have a list here and they appear to be totally inadequate.

Sir A. GEDDES

If there are any cases of special hardship, I shall be pleased to have them looked into,. to see what the position is. In reply to the hon. and gallant Member (Captain Redmond), there was no differentiation.

Captain REDMOND

Will the right hon. Member inform himself, before coming to answer questions, as to the pensions actually granted? Can he say on what basis these pensions were allotted? Is he aware of the fact that they were allotted on prewar wages, and that the poor dependants of the men who went down in the "Leinster" are getting inadequate pensions based on pre-war wages and not on modern conditions?

Sir A. GEDDES

As regards informing myself, I spent from two and a half to three hours looking up this matter in order to be able to answer these questions. I did not go into the actual amount of pensions because they are on scales and it is no part of my functions to go into the scale of pensions.

Sir M. DOCKRELL

Would not an investigation disclose the fact that the ship had no option but to obey orders and go out, although they knew they were facing their fate owing to the fact that there were torpedoes outside the harbour?

21. Mr. DONNELLY

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether any compensation has been awarded for loss sustained to those persons who sent registered or other postal packets or letters containing money or articles or value per the City of Dublin steamship "Leinster," sunk in the Irish Sea by an enemy submarine?

The POSTMASTER-GENERAL (Mr. Illingworth)

My right hon. Friend has asked me to answer this question. Compensation is not paid by the Post Office when a letter or other postal packet, whether registered or not, is lost through enemy action.

Captain REDMOND

Is compensation paid by any Government Department at all?

Mr. ILLINGWORTH

I must have notice of that question.