HC Deb 25 July 1919 vol 118 cc1778-80

(1) His Majesty may make such appointments, establish such offices, make such Orders in Council, and do such things as appear to him to be necessary for carrying out the said Treaty, and for giving effect to any of the provisions of the said Treaty.

(2) Any Order in Council made under this Act may provide for the imposition by summary process or otherwise of penalties in respect of breaches of the provisions thereof, and shall be laid before Parliament as soon as may be after it is made and shall have effect as if enacted in this Act, but may be valied or revoked by a subsequent Order in Council and shall not be deemed to be a statutory rule within the meaning of Section one of the Rules Publication Act. 1893.

Lords Amendment:

At the end of Sub-section (2), insert the words: Provided that, if an Address is presented to His Majesty by either House of Parliament within the next twenty-one days on which that House has sat after any Order in Council made under this Act has been laid before it praying that the Order of any part thereof may be annulled, His Majesty in Council may annul the Order or such part thereof and it shall thenceforth be void, but without prejudice to the validity of anything previously done thereunder.

The SOLICITOR-GENERAL (Sir E. Pollock)

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment. I should like to explain that the Amendment which was put in another place was put in in consequence of an undertaking given by the Prime Minister in this House that some words should be found which would give an opportunity to this House to consider any Orders in Council which were made under and by virtue of the Treaty of Peace. I think the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Peebles (Sir D. Maclean) will recollect that he raised the point in Committee on the Bill, and it was pointed out that two objects had to be attained. One was that there should be no delay in carrying into effect any Order in Council made under the Treaty, because it was necessary that the Order in Council should have immediate legislative effect, but the Prime Minister undertook, in response to my right hon. Friend, that an opportunity should be given to this House to discuss and, if necessary, to annul any Order in Council made under the Treaty. The result is that these words have been introduced. They are not unfamiliar words; they have been used in several other Acts before now, but they have the advantage, and they have been specially chosen for this purpose, that the Order in Council may have immediate legislative effect, but that at the same time the powers of this House are fully and I hope finally preserved, because as soon as the House sits after an Order in Council has been promulgated, there will be an opportunity for the House to consider it, and I think the Prime Minister went so far as to say he would see that an opportunity was given for the consideration of the matter before eleven o'clock. If an Address was presented by either House of Parliament, and the House determined to ask the King to annul it, it would be possible to annul it, subject to this, "without prejudice to the validity of anything previously done thereunder." That is necessary in order to validate such Acts as are necessary immediately to carry it out; at the same time, the future operation of the Order in Council would be prevented. I hope my right hon. Friend will think that full effect has been given to the undertaking, as was certainly the intention, and, indeed, I think these words precisely carry out what was indicated would be necessary by my right hon. Friend the Member for Hitchin (Lord R. Cecil).

Sir D. MACLEAN

I am very glad that the Amendment has been made in another place. This matter was one of very considerable importance. It is really a point raised by my hon. Friend the Member for East Edinburgh (Mr. Hogge), who was particularly anxious that Parliamentary opportunity should be given for a Debate should it be necessary on these Orders in Council. The Prime Minister said very definitely it should be a Parliamentary opportunity in the accepted ordinary sense of the term—that is, one before eleven o'clock—so that we could have an opportunity of discussing it in a fairly adequate way. I do not know whether it was mentioned in the previous Debate, but I would like to mention it now, as to the intention of the Government with regard to the operation of these Orders in Council. What was in contemplation by the Government was some such Orders in Council as would be immediately necessary in dealing with that Section of the Treaty which covers the very intricate but nevertheless most important question of the enemy debts, and it was not intended by the Government to launch Orders in Council which would really affect our domestic concerns or interfere with the ordinary practices of the country in such a way as was necessary during war-time. The intention of this Section was to deal with matters which have an international significance but require some corresponding domestic operation of our own laws, which could only be adequately covered in this way. That was the scope of the intention, and now, so far as we are concerned, I think we have had a quite satisfactory answer and that a satisfactory arrangement has been made.