§ Mr. JOHN DAVISON(by Private Notice) May I ask the Prime Minister whether, in view of the grave unrest in the country, he will follow the action taken in the industrial crises during the War and call together the national executives of the important trade unions and make an announcement to them on the Government's policy in regard to the questions at present giving concern, especially the attitude of the Government towards the Sankey Report on the coal industry?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWThe suggestion of the hon. Member has much to recommend it, and will be sympathetically considered.
§ Lord H. CAVENDISH - BENTINCKHas the Government any policy?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWWe think so.
§ Mr. DAVISONMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman, in view of the success which attended these conferences in the national interests during the War, whether he does not consider that the present industrial situation not only warrants but necessitates one of these conferences?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWBefore the question was put we had considered and discussed this point. I am sure the hon. Member will agree that at this moment it would not be advisable to say more than that the suggestion will be carefully considered.
§ Major NALLWill the right hon. Gentleman consider the advisability of announcing the Government's decision to this House before it is announced to any outside organisation?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWI think the House of Commons will not consider that anything of that kind should stand in the way of trying to put a limit to this industrial unrest. Certainly, any decision will be made first, if it is possible, in the House of Commons, but that does not preclude our meeting other bodies.
§ Lord HUGH CECILWill the Government also carefully bear in mind that they are responsible to Parliament and to the whole people, and not specially to the trade unions?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWOh, yes! I hope that not only this Government, but every Government, will always have that in view.
§ Sir D. MACLEANIn view of the fact that we hope to rise somewhere about the middle of August, will any announcement of policy which the Government may determine be made in this House before we rise?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWI have said in answer to a question on the Paper the Government expects to be able to make a statement on this subject before the Recess. Of course it will be made to this House.
§ Mr. G. BALFOURHave not such negotiations themselves in the past been largely responsible for some of the unrest?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWNo, my hon. Friend is quite mistaken. It is not a question of negotiations at all; it is a question of meeting these bodies in order to try to impress upon them, as upon the country as a whole, the seriousness of the position.
§ Sir D. MACLEANCan the right hon. Gentleman give us any information about the position of the negotiations regarding the coal strike?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWThere is no change except that there has been an accession of strikers in the Nottingham district. A meeting with the Miners' Executive took place to-day. It dealt with the question of piece-rates. The Government, while making it plain that Mr. Justice Sankey's Report must be adhered to, and that the 1549 average of 10 per cent. must be the basis of the arrangement, expressed their willingness to agree to any fair system of distribution over the area, provided the principle were maintained. That is now being considered by the executive of the Miners' Federation.
§ Mr. GRUNDYAre we to understand that an instruction has been given that the 10 per cent. shall be the basis Does that mean that employers and employed are prohibited from going beyond that if arrangements can be made?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWIt would be well if the House understood the position. It is not a question between employers and workmen. Under the present arrangement, under which the employers' profits are guaranteed, any payment of this kind falls not upon the masters, but upon the State, and therefore the Government must be responsible. As I have said, we have no objection whatever to the variation of the rates in different districts to meet the circumstances, but we do say the average should not exceed the basis of Mr. Justice Sankey's Report.
§ Mr. GRUNDYIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that both South and West Yorkshire owners agreed with the representatives of the men that 14.3 per cent. should be paid, and the real origin of the dispute and stoppage is through the fact that after this agreement had been come to by the workmen and employers, the Coal Controller stepped in with the 10 per cent., as mentioned by the right hon. 'Gentleman, which ultimately was "increased to 12½per cent. Had the matter been left to the owners and workmen, is it not a fact that there would have been no stoppage in the Yorkshire coalfield?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWThe hon. Member has not understood the position. The coal-masters in this case cannot possibly come to an agreement, and any discussion was on the basis of being subject to the approval of the Coal Controller. It must be so, because the Government, through the community, have to pay. It was not a matter which could be left to negotiations between the masters and the men.
§ Mr. GRUNDYAm I not perfectly light—we are only attempting to elucidate the matter and if possible assist in some settlement—is it not a fact that the South and West Yorkshire coal-owners had -agreed to pay 14.3 per cent.?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWWe are really just going over the ground that has been gone over frequently. It is the case that the masters, so far as they are concerned, would have been willing to make that arrangement, but the masters do not pay the money, and it had to be. subject to the approval of the Government, which does pay the money.
§ Mr. GRUNDYI am perfectly sure of the facts. I know the right hon. Gentleman will not think I am contradicting him for the sake of contradiction. Is it a fact that they had agreed?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWThey had agreed, as I understand, subject to the approval of the Coal Controller.
§ Mr. GRUNDYUnless my information is wrong, and I feel confident it is not, after the Coal Controller had made the statement that it must not exceed 12½per cent., the South Yorkshire coal-owners adhered to their original arrangement with the men to pay the 14.3 per cent., and said they would pay it even after the Is. 2d. allowed for profit. Is that not also a fact?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWI was not aware of it, and, so far as we know, it is not a fact. In any case, it must be the Government that has to pay, and therefore they must decide.
§ Mr. GRUNDYIf these facts are correct, the responsibility for the stoppage must be that of the Coal Controller. [HON. MEMBERS: "No!"] I am sorry to cause any dissent. It appeared to me that what the owners in South Yorkshire thought just and equitable, that was the 14.3 per cent., and if the difficulty of the Coal Controller could have been put on one side, it appears to me that arrangement for resumption of work could be immediately come to. Surely what the owners themselves thought was just and equitable ought to be equitable for the Coal Controller?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWI doubt if any advantage will be gained by discussing it, because the matter has been thoroughly argued with the Miners' Executive to-day, and is now under consideration by that body, but it is right that the House should understand that while, of course, if the owners were themselves paying the amount, it would be for them to decide, 1551 but they are not paying it, but the Government, and it must be for the Government to decide.
§ Major HURSTWere any Yorkshire representatives present at that Conference?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWI do not think they were, but it was the executive of the Miners' Federation.
§ Colonel GRETTONMay I ask what steps the Government are taking to deal with the confusion and disorganisation arising from the strikes in the collieries and docks, and if they are aware that the strikes are the result of an agitation during a considerable period, by persons whose intention it is to destroy the present industrial, social, and political organisations in the United Kingdom?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWAs regards the first part of the question, it is impossible to say more than that the Government are doing their best to deal, so far as Government action can deal, with the industrial situation. As for the second part of the question, the Government are well aware that there is a number of people—not a very large number, I believe—who, aiming at the destruction of our whole social and political system, are doing their best to foment any discontent that may arise from any cause.
§ Mr. HOUSTONWill the Government deal with these people immediately?
§ Colonel GRETTONCan the right hon. Gentleman give a definite assurance to peaceful and law-abiding citizens that the Government are taking all possible steps to maintain order, and to protect the rights and freedom of orderly citizens, which are now being menaced?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWIt is obvious that it would 'be wrong of the Government to use any language which could be regarded as provocative, but, on the other hand, we have made it absolutely clear that the whole force of the Government will be used to protect people against undue pressure from any source.
§ Mr. HOUSTONWill the Government deal at once, and drastically, with these agitators?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWMy hon. Friend may be sure that the Government are not over-looking these people. We have them in view, and will do whatever we think effective for the purpose. [AN HON. MEMBER: "Will it include Carson?"]
§ Mr. ADAMSONWill the Leader of the House, and the Government, always keep-in view the bad effect that profiteering is having in this country, and deal as drastically with the profiteer as they evidently intend to do with the section of the people mentioned by the right hon. Gentleman?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWwe quite realise that a great deal of the discontent is due either to profiteering or to the belief in profiteering, and the Government certainly intend to take whatever action is possible for them to take before the Committee has reported.