56. Captain TUDOR-REESasked the Prime Minister whether his attention has been called to a speech delivered by the right hon. Member for the Duncairn Division (Sir Edward Carson) on the 12th July; whether he has taken, or will take, the opinion of the Law Officers of the Crown as to whether the statements contained therein are calculated to spread disaffection among His Majesty's subjects or would otherwise justify a prosecution; and whether, seeing that other persons have been prosecuted for less inflammatory speeches, he proposes to take action in the matter?
§ 57. Mr. CLYNESasked the Prime Minister whether his attention has been drawn to the statement made by the right 376 hon. Member for the Duncairn Division of Belfast, that, if any attempt is made to take away from Ulster men their rights as British citizens, he will call out the Ulster Volunteers, and that if any attempt is made to revive the Home Rule Act or put it into force he will summon the Provisional Government; and what action he proposes to take to show equality before the law for all who advise men to defy it, and threaten violence if the law is carried out?
§ 58. Major M'KENZIE WOODasked the Prime Minister whether his attention has been drawn to a speech delivered by the right hon. and learned Member for the Duncairn Division of Belfast at Ballymenoch on the 12th instant, in which he announced his intention of calling out the Ulster Volunteers, and of summoning the Provisional Government if His Majesty's Government attempt to put into force the Government of Ireland Act; whether this declaration is an incitement to direct action against constitutional authority; and whether, in view of the fact that a member of the Government took part in the demonstration at which this speech was made, the Government approve of such action?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWAs suggested in one of these questions, I have consulted the Law Officers, and I am advised that there is no ground upon which His Majesty's Government could take action with regard to the speech referred to.
§ Mr. DEVLINHave any of these Law Officers whom you have consulted made seditious speeches themselves upon the same question?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWI think that my hon. Friend's definition of sedition would be different from mine. In any case we must assume that the Law Officers when asked to give a legal opinion give a legal opinion.
Lieut.-Colonel MALONEIs it not a fact that there are in prison in England men who have been sent to prison for inciting workmen to take direct action by the withdrawal of their individual labour, and is not an incitement to direct action by force of arms much more serious?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWMy answer shows that this is a legal question, and I do not profess to be a judge of law, but even from the paint of view of common sense there is a difference between hypothetical action and action which has been taken.
§ Mr. DEVLINIs treason to be justified because the Law Officers of the Crown think it legal?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWWould the hon. Gentleman like to be hanged if the Law Officers thought that he should not be?
§ Mr. DEVLINI am quite sure that I should be hanged if the Law Officers had their way. Is it a fact that at the present time there are three Socialist orators in Belfast Prison for having made speeches inciting the Belfast workers to direct action in connection with industrial disputes; whether these men, comparatively humble, almost defenceless, are to go to gaol for six months; whether some of them are being forcibly fed; and whether men in high places in this country—[HON. MEMBERS: "Speech!"] I do not care whether it is a speech or not.
§ Mr. SPEAKERBut I care. The hon. Member is not entitled to make speeches. He can put his question without all the embroidery.
§ Mr. DEVLINYes. If you call me to order for making a speech I shall obey, but you did not call me to order. What I want to ask the right hon. Gentleman is this: Really does he not think that it is bringing the law of the country into contempt? [Interruption.] This is about the last place in which an Irishman will be allowed to speak about the affairs of his own country. You may very soon "have no one here to speak," but while I am here I will speak.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThat is all flummery. Put the question.
§ Mr. DEVLINI will put the question, and press the question. If I am put down here, as my countrymen are in Ireland, I will put up with the consequences.
§ Mr. SPEAKERIt is unnecessary for the hon. Member to lecture me or the House. Will he immediately put the question?
§ Mr. DEVLINI was repeatedly interrupted, and you have not risen to call mo to order. The question I have to put is this, and I want an answer to it—whether three humble men, imprisoned for making Socialistic speeches on the Custom House steps at Belfast, have been sentenced to six months' imprisonment and forcibly fed for suggesting direct action to the workers, while statesmen in this House— 378 ex-Law Officers and ex-Ministers of the Crown—can make far worse speeches without a word of condemnation?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWThe hon. Member's analogy is not at all correct.
§ Mr. DEVLINOne is rich and the others are poor.
§ Mr. BONAR LAWIf the workmen to whom he refers had told their fellow workmen that in a certain number of years they would be starving, and that they would be justified in taking direct action, that would be an analogy.
§ Mr. DEVLINDoes the right hon. Gentleman think that the Bolsheviks in this country and the other extreme industrialists will be satisfied with an answer of that character?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWPerhaps the hon. Member will make them understand it.
§ Mr. DEVLINI will make them understand a few things before this controversy is ended.
§ Mr. CLYNESAs one of the questions asked is in my name, I beg to give notice that, in view of the terms of the reply, I shall at the end of Question Time ask leave to move the Adjournment of the House.
§ Mr. SPEAKERIt should have been done on Monday. The thing must be urgent, and steps should have been taken at once.
§ At end of Questions,
§ Mr. CLYNESI beg to ask leave to move the Adjournment of the House, to call attention to a definite matter of urgent public importance—namely, "the lack of any declared intention on the part of the Government to set the law in motion against the right hon. Gentleman the Member for the Duncairn Division of Belfast, in respect of speeches made by him near Belfast on 12th July, inciting to violence and breaches of the law, and calculated to endanger the safety of the Realm." In view of your statement during Questions, Mr. Speaker, may I say that the hon. Members with whom I act on this side of the House considered it was better to raise this subject by placing the question in the ordinary way on the Paper, so as to give the Government the opportunity of consulting the Law Officers of the Crown, and making some considered reply, and, in view of the reply given, I ask leave to move the Adjournment.
§ The pleasure of the House not having been signified, MR. SPEAKER called on those Members who supported the Motion to rise in their places, and not less than forty Members having accordingly risen,
§ The Motion stood over, under Standing Order No. 10, until a quarter-past Eight this evening.