HC Deb 08 July 1919 vol 117 cc1616-8
Sir RYLAND ADKINS

(by Private Notice) asked the Minister for Labour whether he is aware there is much distress in South-East Lancashire among discharged soldiers who have obtained employment in the cotton trade through the Labour Exchanges, and who are not in a position to have joined a trade union, and, therefore, are not receiving strike pay during the continuance of the present strike; and what action he proposes to take in the matter?

The MINISTER for LABOUR (Sir R. Horne)

I understand that the question refers to about fifty demobilised men recently placed by the Employment Exchanges in some of the cotton mills, who have been thrown out of employment as a result of the dispute in Lancashire. The rules of the out-of-work donation scheme, which are the same as those laid down by Parliament for Unemployed Benefit under the National Insurance Acts, do not permit of the payment of the donation in such circumstances.

Sir R. ADKINS

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the prohibition of the use of unemployment donations in the case of Labour disputes was based on the fact that those taking part in the 'disputes presumably had the benefit of pay from the unions to which they belonged? Is he also aware that the men referred to in the question have not been in a position, however much they may desire to join a trade union, and are therefore in a position of exceptional helplessness for that reason? Is he further aware that this extends to more than the fifty to whom the right hon. Gentleman has referred in one particular Lancashire town; and is he prepared to take some steps to deal with persons in a quite exceptional position through no fault of their own?

Mr. T. SHAW

May I ask if the Minister for Labour is aware of the fact that none of the trade unions have prevented soldiers joining the unions, and that they have also kept going the membership of soldiers while serving, and that there is absolutely no bar to taking in discharged soldiers?

Sir R. ADKINS

Before the right hon. Gentleman replies, may I ask whether it is not a fact that in a number of these cases discharged soldiers have only been in employment for a few days, and according to the very proper rules of the trade unions they have not had the opportunity in that time of joining, and therefore cannot get the benefit from the union?

Sir R. HORNE

I shall be very glad to have particulars of the cases to which my hon. Friend refers. I shall, of course, go into the whole matter. I do not at all agree with the foundation upon which he bases the rules of the unemployment insurance scheme. I think it was based not merely upon the fact that men could get provision out of their unions, but on whether or not unemployment insurance could be paid to people who were on strike. That is a salutary rule which, if you abandoned it, would give rise to great abuse. However, I am quite willing to take into account any exceptional hardship and see what I can do. But I do not wish to start a scheme which by any chance would cause great trouble in questions arising out of labour disputes.

Sir R. ADKINS

Do I understand my right hon. Friend to be of opinion that no information has been given on this point which constitutes a case of hardship?

Sir R. HORNE

The information I have does not cover anything like the number of cases to which my hon. Friend referred.

Mr. J. JONES

Is the right hon. Gentleman willing to give equal consideration to the claims of unskilled workers affected by a dispute?

Sir R. HORNE

As I have said, the rule laid down, which is a salutary one, is that unemployment donation cannot be paid to people who are on strike.

Mr. JONES

These people are not on strike. They are thrown out of work because of a strike. Is the right hon. Gentleman prepared to give consideration to them?

Sir R. HORNE

That depends on the precise circumstances in which they are out of work.

Mr. ANEURIN WILLIAM

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that relief was refused in the case stated by the hon. Member in the county of Durham recently, and did he not receive a letter from me on the subject?

Sir R. HORNE

I may have received a letter from the hon. Gentleman, but I do not carry in my head all the letters I get. The rules which are laid down in these circumstances are quite precise and well understood.

Mr. A. WILLIAMS

Do they refuse benefit to a man who is not on strike but who is thrown out of work by other people being on strike?

Sir R. HORNE

It entirely depends upon the circumstances. I can imagine very remote towns in which people were affected by people being on strike. Obviously you cannot apply it right through the whole chain of circumstances.