HC Deb 27 February 1919 vol 112 cc2030-3

Motion made, and Question proposed, That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £1,000, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1919, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Offices of the Chief Secretary in Dublin and London, and of the Inspectors of Lunatic Asylums, and Expenses under the Inebriates Acts.

Mr. DEVLIN

I do not know whether it is meant, but the sandwiching of this Vote between the Vote for mad dogs and the Vote for lunatic asylums shows that there is a certain British sense of proportion in relation to Irish affairs which we never before appreciated. What I want to know is: Why there should be this additional thousand pounds for travelling expenses for the Chief Secretary for Ireland? The entire Estimate is for £l,800. That is the cost to the State for matters connected with, and having a foreign gentleman travelling from this country to Ireland and travelling back again. I am not a very subtle commercial man, but I only say that this is about the most unprofitable transaction that even a British Government engaged in. Why should the Chief Secretary for Ireland have gone to one thousand pounds more expense in travelling to Ireland this year than in any other year of administration? I should like an explanation of how this £1,800 has been spent. There was not any need for the Chief Secretary to travel to Ireland at all. It would have been far better for Ireland if he stayed in this country. Who is this Chief Secretary? Who is any Chief Secretary? What is a Chief Secretary? What functions does he discharge? What powers has he in administration or in Government? I do not know. Hon. Members do not know. He himself does not know! I asked the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland once—I think within the last eighteen months—who governed Ireland? He replied that he did not know. Yet he was the chief executive authority in that country. The present Lord Lieutenant is complete master of the destinies of Ireland in the interest of this country. I see that you are wagging your head, Sir Edwin. I am not going to take advantage of your lack of experience in the Chair; therefore I shall keep as closely as possible to the Vote. I see the Attorney-General here, the prolific defender of indefensible causes in Ireland. I may venture to address to him a series of fiscal interrogatories. I want to know why the Chief Secretary travelled to Ireland? I want to know why he travelled back? I want to know what he was doing when he travelled there, and what he was saying when he travelled back here? What was he doing in Ireland? During last year the Chief Secretary travelled backwards and forwards, and I am not aware that he did anything but make promises. Not one of his promises has materialised. He created nothing. He invented only the German plot.

The DEPUTY-CHAIRMAN (Sir Edwin Cornwall)

That point is not in order. The hon. Member must discuss the question before the Committee, which is as to the provision of an additional £1,000 for travelling expenses.

Mr. DEVLIN

Yes, Sir, but what I contend is, that while the Chief Secretary was travelling he invented the German plot.

The DEPUTY-CHAIRMAN

That does not come in for discussion on this Vote.

Mr. DEVLIN

With all respect to you, I do say that as a Member of this House, sitting here as a representative of the wronged taxpayers of this country, I am entitled to discuss the value we have got for this thousand pounds. I say all the value we have got was the excuse given to the Coalition Government by inventing the German plot, which was invented in order to put a number of gentleman in Ireland in gaol without trial?

The DEPUTY-CHAIRMAN

I should not be doing my duty if I allowed this discussion.

Mr. DEVLIN

It seems to me we cannot discuss the matter of the labours of the right hon. Gentleman who gets this £1,800. Therefore I shall not proceed further except to say that the Chief Secretary for Ireland made two hundred promises during the time he was travelling to and from Ireland, that each promise cost the State £5, and that we are getting nothing for the expenditure.

Mr. SAMUELS

The only question we have to discuss is this extra sum required for travelling. It includes not only the Chief Secretary's travelling, but also the staff of the Irish Office, who very frequently have to cross between England and Ireland. We all know that the cost of travelling has risen enormously, and during the Session the Chief Secretary had to cross the Channel thirty-three times.

Mr. DEVLIN

I had to cross thirty-four times.

Mr. SAMUELS

This Estimate also includes certain expenses in connection with the Under-Secretary for Ireland.

Captain REDMOND

Why is it that it has cost the Treasury £l,000 more during last year for the Chief Secretary than it did before?

Mr. SAMUELS

It has been necessary to provide for the Chief Secretary visiting Ireland more, and he has very frequently had to return to attend Cabinet meetings.

Mr. DEVLIN

Motor cars.

Mr. SAMUELS

Yes, there is the hire of motor cars and the increased cost of petrol; and many other expenses have been enormously increased.

Captain REDMOND

Are they going to increase next year?

Mr. SAMUELS

I do not know.

Mr. T. P. O'CONNOR

The Chief Secretary seems to be about the most expensive and useless luxury that we have got either in England or Ireland.

Mr. DEVLIN

Do the lunatic asylums come under this Vote for the Chief Secretary's salary?

Question put, and agred to.