CLAUSE 3.—(Publicity of Proceedings.) (Hansard, 25 February 1919)

§ Mr. INSKIP

I beg to move, to leave out the words, The Commissioners may, in their discretion, refuse to allow the public or any portion of the public to be present atany proceedings of the Commissioners during the hearing of evidence of matters which, but for this Act, could not be disclosed, but save as aforesaid. My Amendment is designed to ensure the largest measure of publicity that is possible for the evidence taken before the Commissioners. The result of the last Amendment has rather made me fear that the right hon. Gentleman will not be disposed to accept this Amendment, because he spoke of the intimate nature of the documents and the evidence that will be produced before the Commission. I hope, however, that this Amendment will be accepted, and also my second Amendment. If my Amendments are accepted the Sub-section would read: The sittings of the Commissioners at which evidence is taken shall be held in public; and a full and complete record in shorthand shall be kept of all evidence taken whether in public or in private. There are a few reasons why I think this Amendment is desirable. In the first place, it is exceedingly difficult for any Commission to keep entirely secret matters which are given in evidence before it. We 1694 have all had experience of the fact, that matters which were intended to be kept secret were not kept secret. If matters are given in evidence which are intended to be kept secret and which are not, and which are known to a few and not to the public, it creates distrust and doubt in the minds of those who have to discuss them, and in the minds of those who have to abide by the decision of a Commission as to the evidence given before which they are in the dark. Another reason is, that these materials which will be given in evidence will be required, I hope, by Parliament as well as by the Government. If this question is to be determined solely by the Government, and this House is to have no power of deliberation upon this question, it is for the Commissioners to receive certain parts of the evidence in secret and the Government and Commissioners alone should have access to that evidence. There is a last reason why I think this Amendment should be accepted. I hope this Commission is going to be a now departure in the sense that everybody is going to disclose the materials which the country requires for settling questions of this character. I do not know whether there is any prospect of these disputes between workmen and employers ever becoming impossible, but I am sure of one thing which will tend to that more than any, and that is, that everybody should disclose the information which is required to settle that which should be solely a matterof arithmetic—the right proportion which the workers and the capitalists should receive for the earnings in their industry. I shall vote for this Bill in any case, and I should vote for it with enthusiasm if I thought there would be nothing kept back from the public or this House, nothing kept secret, nothing hidden, but that everything should be laid bare for this House and the country to exercise judgment upon it.

§ Mr. SHORTT

I hope this Amendment will not be pressed. There is no desire to keep anything back. It is not a question of making this a secret inquiry of any description. It merely gives discretion to the Commissioners, and I think having regard to the personnel of the Commission, when we know who the Chairman is, we can be perfectly satisfied that that discretion will be used carefully and wisely. Let me give my hon. Friend an example of the sort of thing that might happen. It might be necessary to arrive at an average of profits in a certain district, and for that 1695 purpose it might be necessary to go very closely into the individual profits of an individual, and the individual income of an individual, and to receive evidence in regard to these points. It might very well be perfectly fair to say: "We are not going to publish to the world the intimate facts regarding the individual, but we will publish to the world the general average which we get from the facts over the whole."It would be within the discretion of the Commission to do a thing of that sort. It is a pure question of discretion, and as speaking generally, the desire is to make this inquiry as public as can be, I hope the hon. Member will not press the Amendment.