HC Deb 22 December 1919 vol 123 cc1134-40

(1) Any local authority being authorised distributors may, with the consent of the Electricity Commissioners, agree with the district electricity board of the district in which the area of supply of the authority or any part thereof is situated for the transfer to the board of the whole or any part of the undertaking of the authority within that district in consideration for the payment at the option of the local authority of either one or more annuities or a capital sum, calculated in like manner and on the like principles as the standard price in the case of a generating station is to be calculated: Provided that where part of the area of supply of the authority is situated in a locality which is not included in an electricity district the powers of purchasing that part may, if the Electricity Commissioners consent, be exercised by a district electricity board within whose district any part of the area of supply is situated. (2) Where under the Electric Lighting Acts, or under any Order made thereunder or under any special or local Act, any right to purchase the whole or any part of the undertaking of any authorised distributors is vested in any local authority (including a county council), the right shall on the constitution of a district electricity board for the district comprising the area of the local authority be transferred to and vest in the board, and any Order or Act conferring any such right shall be construed accordingly: Provided that—

  1. (a) if the area of the local authority is situate partly in the district of one district electricity boaro and partly in that of another the right shall be transferred to such one of those boards or divided between them as the Electricity Commissioners may determine, and where part of such area is situate in a locality which is not included in an electricity district the right of purchasing that part may, if the Electricity Commissioners consent, be transferred to a district electricity board within whose district any part of such area is situate; and
  2. (b) where the distributors are themselves a local authority, the right so transferred to the district electricity board shall not be exercised, except with the consent of the Electricity Commissioners.
(3) Where any such right as aforesaid becomes exercisable before tire date of the transfer of the right, to a district electricity board, the right shall not be exercised by the local authority without the consent of the Electricity Commissioners, and such consent may be given subject to such conditions as the Commissioners may think fit, and it shall be lawful for the local authority to comply with any conditions so imposed. (4) Where by virtue of this Act any generating station or main transmission line belonging to a company or person being authorised distributors is vested in a district electricity board, that board shall, if so required by the company or person within two years from the date of vesting, purchase the whole of the remaining part of the undertaking of that company or person upon the terms of paying a sum equal to the amount certified by an auditor appointed by the Board of Trade to be the amount of capital expenditure on the whole undertaking properly standing in the books of the company or person prior to the date of vesting, together with any additional capital expenditure since that date, less any sum paid or payable in respect of any generating station or main transmission line so vested as aforesaid. (5) A district electricity board with the consent of the Electricity Commissioners may at any time acquire the whole or any part of the undertaking of any authorised distributors not being a local authority, by agreement, and it shall be lawful for any such distributors to sell their undertaking or any part thereof to a district electricity board.

Lords Amendments: In Sub-section (1) leave out the words "district electricity board," and insert thereof the words "joint electricity authority"—Agreed to.

After the word "the "["the authority of"] insert the word "local"—Agreed to.

Leave out the word "board"["board of"], and insert instead thereof the words "joint electricity authority."—Agreed to.

After the word "the"["the authority within"] insert toe word "local," and leave out the words in consideration for the payment at the option of the local authority of either one or more annuities or a capital sum, calculated in like manner and on the like principles as the standard price in the case of a generating station is to be calculated.

—Agreed to.

After the word "the"["the authority"] insert the word "local."— Agreed to.

Leave out the words "district electricity board,' and insert instead thereof the words "joint electricity authority."—Agreed to.

Lords Amendment:

In Sub-section (2), leave out the words "shall on constitution of," and insert instead thereof the words "may by any Order under this Act constituting."

Mr. SHORTT

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

Mr. MARRIOTT

It might be desirable that the House should have a word of explanation from the Home Secretary before it gives its assent to this Amendment, which it seems to me may very seriously affect the benefits which are proposed to be given under this part of the Bill. The Clause provides that any right to purchase vested in any local authority, including a county council, shall be transferred to the joint electricity authority on its constitution. This, which I think was a manuscript Amendment, makes it permissive whether such rights are or are not to be transferred. If the Commissioners decided not to transfer these powers, it would be of hardly any use for them to constitute a joint electricity authority at all, for the authority's life may be limited so as to make the conditions impossible. On the other hand, if the right of purchase goes to the joint authority, thereby giving to it an unlimited life, it may be able to raise its capital on terms which will enable it to make good. The House, therefore, should not assent to this Amendment without a word of explanation from the Home Secretary.

Mr. NEAL

I understand the hon. Member's point to be this: Under the Electric Lighting Act of 1888, Section 2, certain rights of purchase at given times are Vested in local authorities. As the Bill left this House for another place it read thus: Where under the Electric Lighting Acts or under any Order made thereunder or under any special or local Act, any right to purchase the -whole or any part of the undertaking of any authorised distributors is vested in any local authority (including a county council) the right shall on the constitution of a joint electricity board for the district comprising the area of the local authority be transferred to and vest in the board, and any Order or Act conferring any such right shall be construed accordingly. As it comes back to us that is varied in the interest of the undertakers, because it is now provided that the scheme under which the joint electricity authority is formed shall itself deal with that matter, and says the Commissioners may vest in the joint electricity authority the right of purchase, "but subject to an Order providing for adequate representation on the joint electricity authority of the local authority from whom the right is transferred." I will give a concrete case, by way of illustration. In 1931 the London County Council will have their right of purchasing certain undertakings. If the scheme constituting a joint electricity authority for the London area vests that in the joint electricity authority they must be given adequate representation to the London County Council. A consequential Amendment to be moved by the Home Secretary will deal as to how that adequate representation is to be secured.

Question put, and agreed to.

Lords Amendment: Leave out the words "district electricity board," and insert instead thereof the words "joint electricity authority."—Agreed to.

Amendment made: Leave out the word "vest" ["and vest in the board"], and insert instead thereof the word "vested." —[Mr. Shortt.]

Lords Amendment: After the word "authority" ["local authority be"], insert the words subject to the Order providing for adequate representation on the joint electricity authority of the local authority from whom the right is transferred. Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

Mr. HOGGE

What is meant by "adequate representation"? This Clause gives a joint electricity authority power to purchase a local undertaking, and on that joint electricity authority the local under- taking which previously controlled its own concern will only have a certain voice. It is "subject to the Order." is that an Order drawn under the Bill on which there will be proportional representation of those concerned with the new joint electricity authority according to the size of the undertaking?

Mr. MARRIOTT

This Amendment seems to go a great deal further than the Amendment on the Paper in another place, which was originally intended only to apply to the London County Council. The Amendment on the Paper in another place gave the London County Council representation on the London Joint Electricity authority. The present Amendment, which was only inserted after conversations in another place, goes a great deal further than that. It requires that adequate representation shall be given on any joint authority of every local authority that had powers of purchase under the previous Acts. That makes the new authority an impracticable proposition. For example, there may he an authority proposed. For district running into an area embracing twenty local authorities where electricity is supplied by companies only. As I read the Amendment it would prevent the purchasing power being transferred at all unless each of those purchasing authorities have a seat on the joint electricity authority. That seems to me a. very awkward proposition.

Mr. NEAL

The Amendment as it comes to us from another place provides for adequate representation on tile joint electricity authority. What adequate representation may mean must vary according to the circumstances in each case. There is nothing in the Bill as we have it before us which provides any method by which the word "adequate" may be determined. The hon. Member for East Edinburgh (Mr. Rogge) asks how the adequacy of representation is to be arrived at. The Government will move a further Amendment to line 32, to add necessary words, namely: And any question as the adequacy of such representation shall be determined by the Electricity Commissioners. The Order is one that is made by the Electricity Commissioners, and it has to come to both Houses of Parliament for affirmative assent by Resolution before it becomes operative. It is proposed that the Electricity Commissioners should have the framing of the Order and of saying what is adequate representation, but the final word upon it is in this House and in another place.

Mr. MARRIOTT

That does not deal with my point. My point was that there may be an authority proposed for a district which runs into the area of a very large number of local authorities, say, twelve, fifteen, or twenty. Before you get your authority established you have to give adequate representation to each of those local authorities. Would not that be an extremely cumbrous proceeding?

Mr. NEAL

I do not think so. The only local authorities which are entitled to representation are the local authorities who have the right of purchase, and an authority which has that right is to have adequate representation. There is no limitation to the size and number of the joint electricity authorities, and when the Commissioners in the first instance come to consider what is adequate representation they will no doubt bear in mind the points raised by my hon. Friend. The final word is with Parliament, and I cannot imagine that my hon. Friend would wish anything better than that.

Mr. HOGGE

What does my hon. Friend mean when he says that the final word is with Parliament? I understood him to say that the Electricity Commissioners would determine what was adequate representation, and that that would be finally approved by this House and another place. In what form will every scheme of representation on the joint electricity authority be brought here? Will it be laid as a Minute on the Table, subject to the usual petition inside thirty days?

Mr. NEAL

The Order by the Electricity Commissioners for constituting the joint electricity authority is a special Order within the terms of this Bill, and all such Orders require an affirmative Resolution of both Houses of Parliament before they become law.

Question put, and agreed to.

Lords Amendment: Leave out the word "board" ["vested in the board"], and insert instead thereof the words "joint electricity authority."—Agreed to.

Amendments made: Leave out the words "any Order or Act conferring any such," and insert instead thereof the words "on any right being so transferred, the Order or Act conferring the."—[ Mr. shortt.]

After the word "accordingly"["continued accordingly"], insert the words "and any question as to the adequacy of such representation shall be determined by the Electricity Commissioners."— [Mr. Shortt]

Lords Amendments: in paragraph (a), leave out the words "district electricity board," and insert instead thereof the words" joint electricity authority."— Agreed to.

Leave out the word "transferred," and insert instead thereof the word "transferable"—Agreed to.

In Sub-section (2, a) leave out the word "boards "["one of those boards or divided"], and insert instead thereof the words "joint electricity authorities."—Agreed to.

Leave out the word divided," and insert instead thereof the word "divisible."—Agreed to.

Leave out the word "transferred "["consent, be transferred to a district"], and insert instead thereof the word "transferable."—Agreed to.

Leave out the words district electricity board," and insert instead thereof the words "joint electricity authority."—Agreed to.

Amendments made: Leave out paragraph (b)—[Mr. Shortt.]

In Sub-section (3), leave out the words "transfer of the right to," and insert instead thereof the words '' constitution of."—[Mr. Shortt.]

Lords Amendments: Leave out Sub-seetion (4).—Agreed to.

In Sub-section (5), leave out the words "district electricity board,"and insert instead thereof the words "joint electricity authority"[twice].—Agreed to.

Leave out the word "distributors,"and insert instead thereof the word "undertakers "[twice].—Agreed to.