§ 19. Captain FALCONasked the Minister of Labour if ex-soldiers are not granted training facilities unless they are able to show that they have been guaranteed employment at the ending of training?
The MINISTER of LABOUR (Sir, Robert Horne)it is not the case that there is a rule under which ex-Service 384 men are refused training unless they can produce a guarantee of employment at the end of their training. The hon. and gallant Member will, however, appreciate that in the interests of the men, care must be taken not to train men in trades which offer no reasonable prospect of employment, and in such cases training is sometimes refused in such trades.
20. Captain COOTEasked the Minister of Labour whether the fact that large numbers of disabled men are awaiting training is still due to lack of training institutions; and whether at such institutions as are available there are now resident the full number of men with which those institutions are capable of dealing?
§ Sir R. HORNEThe lack of sufficient training institutions is, at the moment, the chief obstacle to providing training for disabled men. The instructional factories which have been acquired are not yet completely available for training purposes, but their adaptation is proceeding with the utmost possible dispatch. I would remind the hon. and gallant Member that even when suitable premises have been acquired, their conversion, equipment, and staffing for training purposes is bound to take time.
Captain COOTEIs there any system whereby the training institutes immediately notify vacancies to those who have the placing of these disabled men, namely, the local war pensions committees?
§ Sir R. HORNEI can assure my hon. Friend that there are no delays as between particulars becoming available and the men being placed.
21. Captain COOTEasked the Minister of Labour whether the capacity of the training institution at Lancaster Street, Birmingham, is 300 men; whether there are actually resident only 109 men; and, in view of the number of men awaiting training, whether he will explain this discrepancy?
§ Sir R. HORNEThe Government Instructional Factory, Lancaster Street, Birmingham, provides accommodation for 250 men. At the present moment 149 men are in training there. It is estimated that the factory will be completely filled by the end of the month by men transferred from technical schools after a preliminary course of instruction there and by new trainees directly admitted. The delay in 385 filling the total accommodation available has been due to differences of opinion in the local technical advisory committee as to the character of training which should be given by the technical school and the Government factory respectively.
§ 22. Major KELLEYasked the Minister of Labour what response has been made by the employers to the King's appeal to absoro disabled ex-Service men under the national scheme for the employment on a percentage basis of disabled ex-Service men; what proportion of employers employing more than ten workpeople have signed the agreements; what number of disabled ex-Service men have been placed in employment as a result; the number of disabled ex-Service men remaining unemployed; the number likely to need employmnt who are now undergoing treatment, training, or in hospital; whether the scheme is a failure in large industrial areas; and whether the Government are now prepared to legislate to make the scheme compulsory upon all employers?
§ Sir R. HORNEOn 10th December the number of employers on the King's National Roll was 8,100, with a total of 1,230,000 workpeople, and guaranteeing employment for 75,500 disabled men. No figures are available to show what proportion of employers employing more than ten workpeople have signed undertakings. The total number of disabled men placed in employment by the Exchanges between 15th September and 5th December was 14,700, and many more have been placed by direct application. The number of disabled ex-Service men registered at the Employment Exchanges as unemployed on 5th December was 42,000. It is impossible to estimate how many of those now undergoing treatment or training, or in hospital, are likely to need employment hereafter. It would be premature to ex-press any opinion as to the Success of the scheme, but I consider that its progress up to the present has been reasonably satisfactory, and the question of applying compulsion has not yet arisen.
§ 27. Sir H. CRAIKasked the Minister of Labour whether young men who, but for having joined the Army during the War, would have been serving an apprentice-ship, and thus acquiring qualification as skilled labourers, are now, by the action of the trade unions, being prevented from receiving that training or being given any employment except as unskilled labourers; 386 and if he will take action to prevent this wrong being done in connection with any scheme of training under his direction
§ Sir R. HORNEIf the right hon. Gentleman is referring to the case of those who had begun apprenticeships prior to the War, there are, so far as I am aware, no impediments offered by any trade union to the training necessary for the completion of the apprenticeships. With regard to men who had not begun any apprenticeship before the War, it has been possible up till now to make arrangements with the trade unions through the Trade Advisory Committees for the training of disabled men only, and, in the case of one important, union, consent has not been given even to the granting of facilities for their training. I am using every endeavour to obtain a wider acquiescence of the trades concerned in these schemes.
§ Sir H. CRAIKIs it not equally a hard case that a young man, who went out to serve in 1914, before starting his apprenticeship, should now find that he is prevented by the action of a trade union from following any occupation except that of an unskilled labourer?
§ Sir R. HORNEI think my right hon. Friend is leaving one factor out of account. Those who went to serve before the beginning of an apprenticeship were not, obviously, intending to begin any apprenticeship, because they were beyond the age at which apprenticeships in this country are usually begun. Accordingly, those for whom we must provide, in the first instance, are those who have begun an apprenticeship and still have to complete it.
§ Sir H. CRAIKIs the right hon. Gentleman not aware that there are such boys? have within my own knowledge the ease of one boy who began to serve at sixteen years of age—he was a well-grown boy—before he began his apprenticeship, who is now prevented at the age of nineteen or twenty from having anything before him, after giving five years' service to his country, except unskilled labour, and that by the action of the trade unions.
§ Mr. W. THORNEIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that the majority of the apprentices in the engineering trade and in other trades are members of their respective trade unions, and that the members of the trade unions welcome them back at the earliest opportunity?
§ Sir H. CRAIKIn such a case as I have mentioned the boy could not possibly be a member of a trade union, because he went out when he was sixteen, but the unions will not now admit him to apprenticeship.
§ Sir R. HORNEThe case to which my right hon. Friend refers must be very unusual.
§ Sir H. CRAIKNo!
§ Sir R HORNEI should be very glad if my right hon. Friend would put before me the particular facts in regard to people beginning to serve at that age. Certainly the cases are not numerous.
§ Sir H. CRAIKIs it not within the recollection of the right hon. Gentleman that I did bring before him a case? I gave him all the facts and asked him to take action, but he told me himself that he was prevented from doing so by the action of the trade union.
§ Sir R. HORNEIt is perfectly true that at the present time it is impossible to gain the acquiescence of the trade unions —
§ Sir H. CRAIKMore shame to the trade unions!
§ Sir R. HORNE—in the training of people who had not taken an apprenticeship before they began to serve.
§ Sir H. CRAIKIt is just as hard for them.
§ 28. Sir W. DAVISONasked the Minister of Labour whether many hundreds of demobilised soldiers who were trained by the Government during the War to undertake engineering work in connection with motor transport, tanks, etc., and are capable of earning good wages as trained men, are kept unemployed because the great engineering trade unions will not allow their members to work with them; and what steps he is taking in the matter?
§ Sir R. HORNECases of the kind to the number mentioned have not been brought to my notice, though there have been some similar cases. I have endeavoured to alleviate such troubles where they have arisen.
§ Sir W. DAVISONIs it not a fact that a large number of cases of this kind have occurred where trade unions have prevented men from getting employment?
§ Sir R. HORNEThere has been a considerable number of cases undoubtedly, but not the hundreds to which my hon. Friend refers.
§ 32. Mr. FORRESTasked the Minister of Labour if he will state the number of firms to date who in response to the King's appeal have undertaken to provide employment for disabled men; and which county, according to its industrial population, has so far made the best return?
§ Sir R. HORNEThe number of firms at present on the King's National Roll is 8,469. The information asked for in the last part of the question is not available.