MINISTRY OF HEALTH. (Hansard, 23 October 1918)

§ Mr. BOOTH
I will not detain the House very long. I want to take the earliest opportunity of informing the Government of the serious risk they run in threatening the future existence of the great friendly societies. The answer on 884 behalf of the Prime Minister to-day, on a very serious subject, was that communications had been received by the War Cabinet that the friendly societies and trades unions of this country were prepared to offer the strongest opposition to any so-called Ministry of Health Bill, which is nothing but a sham and which links them up with the Local Government Board and the Poor Law. I want to say that that opposition will be maintained throughout the length and breadth of the country.

Mr. DEPUTY-SPEAKER
Really the hon. Member is now discussing a question of legislation, and it is not in order on a Motion for the Adjournment.

§ Mr. BOOTH
I do not wish to propose legislation. What I want to deal with is the answer to the Minister. What I want to point out is this, that in the present administration of the Insurance Act the voluntary principle is preserved. The position is challenged. What is the consequence of that? Negotiations are going on behind the back of this House—I do not know to what effect, and I am putting a question on the Paper—but it seems to me that the Government ought to be warned that the friendly societies and trades unions of this country require more definite recognition than what they have had.

Mr. DEPUTY-SPEAKER
The hon. Member is directing his criticism to some answers to a question relating to legislation. You cannot evade the Rules of the House in that way.

§ Mr. BOOTH
I beg your pardon. I am directing my remarks with regard to negotiations, and what I want to make clear—

Mr. DEPUTY-SPEAKER
That will not do. These negotiations are in connection with legislation proposed, or likely to be proposed, to the House. That is not in order on the Adjournment of the House.

§ Mr. BOOTH
Very well, I will leave that and I will state to the House what the position is with regard to administration. In the administration of the Insurance Act, as he House well knows, the voluntary principle is observed, and it seems to me quite clear that the friendly societies and the approved societies must exist only upon that voluntary basis. What has been the case with regard to this administration? 885 They find that the institutions granted by the House are formed of National Commissioners. There are National Commissioners in Ireland, National Commissioners in Wales, National Commissioners in Scotland, and by consequence, though not directly, perhaps, we get Commissioners in England. Now these societies have been going on for some time on this voluntary basis, and there is no doubt have commended themselves generally to the country. On administration in this House one of the Whips usually answers, or in this case the Comptroller of the Household. Now we find that these matters are being taken charge of by another Government Department. I protest against that, and I say that all matters relating to these societies ought to go through the Comptroller of the Household, who represents the Insurance Commissioners. Those Insurance Commissioners were at first objected to on the ground that it would lead to increased expenses, and to a certain extent would lead to divided accounts. My view upon that was this, that although in the case of Wales her people if by having separate accounts their experience would not be as good as if there was an International Association, yet if it evoked a national spirit that it would amply repay for any financial loss the actuaries might find. What has been the case? It has been the case that in Wales patriotic citizens have come forward in a national spirit, and have liberally found money for the treatment of tuberculosis among the South Wales miners. I venture to urge upon the Government that this is not a time to withdraw their confidence from these National Commissioners. What they may propose I do not know, but I wish to give my testimony at once that I think they have done very good work in all the four countries. I claim that the Government ought to pay the greatest attention to the representations of these great societies which they created. Men have not been paid for their services. No one could say that the remuneration in the Insurance Act is a proper reward for the amount of time and energy which has been put into this question, and, while I 886 have never been an advocate in this House for vested interests, I say that the friendly society officials, the trade union officials and industrial insurance agents who have given ample time to this work should receive proper payment and be entitled to consideration when their future is at stake.

Mr. DEPUTY-SPEAKER
I have already three times drawn the hon. Member's attention that he is not in order and I shall not call his attention to it again.

§ Mr. BOOTH
I quite see, of course, that the Rules of the House do prevent me from anticipating legislation, but it was because there was an added danger that I think I am entitled to protest. It is not mere fear of legislation, but I think there is a fear of altered administration, and I think I am entitled to warn the Government against an alteration in administration. The point is this: This great insurance scheme was put under the Treasury. By being put under the Treasury it lost what other schemes get in the way of an advocate in this House, because the Treasury stands, of course, for economy, and is a great critic upon all spending Departments. The Local Government Board, the Home Office, and the Education Office, have their spokesmen in this House, and the Treasury is a critic who has care of the public purse. But unfortunately for the Insurance Act the administration was placed under the Treasury and I want to make a complaint on that ground. What I think is seriously at fault is that when the Government comes to consider the future administration of this Act it has not got a spokesman while every other Government department has. Therefore I think that is all the more reason why the Government should pay attention to the great friendly societies, the great approved societies and the trade unions, who in this matter are going to start a campaign which will ring from one end of the country to the other.