HC Deb 16 October 1918 vol 110 cc241-50

Whereupon Mr. SPEAKER, pursuant to the Order of the House of the 13th February, proposed the Question, "That this House do now adjourn."

11.0 P.M.

Sir JOHN SPEAR

I am sorry to detain the House at this late hour, but I feel that the question of the slaughter of fat cattle is so important that it was not possible to deal with it by question and answer across the floor of the House. I cannot produce exact figures as to the extent of the difficulties that have arisen, but I think I am within the mark when I say that of every fat beast exhibited to the butchers two, if not three, are rejected through lack of opportunity to dispose of them. The Parliamentary Secretary this afternoon spoke very sympathetically, but I rather felt that he failed to realise the magnitude of the difficulty which has arisen and certainly he failed to encourage us to think that he was provided with any immediate and sufficient remedy to deal with it. He seemed to think that by keeping back these fat cattle at this time he will make more liberal provision for winter use. He is in error in coming to that conclusion. These cattle go back on the pasture and not only lose condition but they are consuming food which was necessary and indeed intended by the farmer for the purpose of completing the fattening of later grades of cattle for use in the ensuing months of the year and in early winter. The farmer has been urged by the Prime Minister and others to do everything possible to produce meat, and we, have been asked more than once this year to keep back the beasts and make them heavier in order to increase the food supply, and now there is not by any means sufficient outlet for these cattle. In addition to these difficulties, the Government is commandeering a great part of the hay. My hon. and gallant Friend spoke of the lack of provision for cold storage. I think the Government is very seriously to blame for the neglect to make provision of this character. On 17th July last year I appealed to the Government to provide cold storage to take the surplus cattle which accumulate practically every autumn, and put the meat in cold storage for winter use. I regret that that has not been done, and experience of what happened last year, a serious glut in the autumn and then a great scarcity in winter, should have convinced the Government of the necessity of making this provision, which would have dealt with the difficulty. The surplus cattle could have been slaughtered and the meat put in cold storage, when it would have been very valuable for winter use.

I would suggest one or two remedies for the difficulty which has arisen for the consideration of the Ministry of Food. While we realise the difficulty, which is approaching disaster to the farmer, after all it is a matter for congratulation that after four years and more of war we are dealing with the difficulty of home supply instead of lack of food for the people. We want this great supply to be utilised to the best possible interests of the consumer, without any injustice to the producer. Only grade I cattle should be taken for a month, or at the most six weeks, because there are certain farmers the character of whose land would not enable them to produce more than second grade cattle, beasts quite fit for slaughter though not of the first grade. Unless they obtain relief within, at the outside six weeks, they would be very seriously inconvenienced and would suffer great loss. For a month we might safely take first grade cattle for slaughter and thereby avoid their depreciation in weight. The same applies more or less to sheep, but not so pressingly. I would urge again on my hon. Friend (Major Astor) who has shown appreciation of the case, the necessity of the immediate liberation of damaged grain, and of allowing farmers to use for their cattle all the dredge corn which they have grown. That remedy will not be very immediate, because much of this corn has been harvested in such a bad condition that it cannot be threshed until the frost has dried it. Ultimately it will be a very valuable help, but not immediately. Cake not required for milking cows should be freed for use. I would also suggest that there should be an increased price for meat during the winter (possibly it might be introduced to a partial degree during December) after Christmas. There should be an increase of at least 5s. per live cwt., to encourage farmers to keep on their cattle and to remunerate them for the extra outlay which will be necessitated in the use of corn and in the purchase of cake. I suggest that that money should be taken from the 11s. 4d. per cent., which the consumer has to pay for his meat over and above the sum that is paid to the farmer for his cattle. The 11s. 4d. per cwt. means on the average from £4 to £5 per bullock, and surely from that fund, which cannot all be used for official expenses, there might be taken a sum of money that would afford an increase of 5s. per cwt. liveweight during the winter. This would not increase the cost to the consumer. The money would be taken from the 11s. 4d., and I think the cost to the consumer would not be increased.

I claim that the great influx of cattle from Ireland which we have had this year should be checked. The British farmer feels very strongly on this point. His son and key man has gone to the War, and he has struggled to produce cattle; therefore he objects to unfair competition from Ireland where there is no controlled price. The beasts come in as freely as ever they did. It is unjust to the British farmer who is handicapped by losing his men that he should be unable to dispose of his cattle in consequence of this unfair competition. I would suggest that the question of redistribution should be reconsidered, that the cattle should be forwarded direct from the producing district to the big towns, the consuming centres, rather than be sent to the local centres to be retrucked, meaning often delay and loss of weight through cattle being kept without food. I have never known quite so serious a danger to the industry. It can be mitigated if the Government will only face the question. I would suggest that for two months the purchasing value of the meat coupon might be increased by one-half. That would cause a greater demand for meat. People would appreciate it and it would ease the difficulty a little, and the whole scheme which I have suggested would result in the provision of more meat during the winter time when it is extremely important that it should be forthcoming for the use of the people.

Sir CROYDON MARKS

I represent a large agricultural district. My Constituents are very much concerned with the question which is now before the House, inasmuch as they have found that while there is a great shortage of meat there is a surplusage of cattle, cattle being sent to market and then returned to them because it is impossible for them to be purchased. Cattle which are in good condition at present and ought to be slaughtered are sent back to consume food which ought to be consumed by the immature cattle. The position is that the cattle which are in a condition now to give the best meat have had to be waste-fully fed, owing entirely to the inelastic Regulations which unfortunately are so strenuously followed by the Food Department. We have so many Regulations connected with the different Departments which control us that they actually bring discredit on the Government because of the manner in which they adhere to them without any suggestion of their being revised to meet emergencies that always arise. It is not a fact that the shortage of meat is in only one place. The shortage of meat is general. One would assume that it was due to the shortage of cattle, whereas it is well known in cattle-producing areas that cattle are now there which if kept there any longer will be wasting the food that is needed for the other cattle. There is not enough food to go round. And while this is happening, the Regulations of the Food Department are so inelastic that apparently the authorities do not see the result which is being produced. I hope that the result of this discussion may cause the Department to vary the Regulations, and permit cattle to be slaughtered rather than have them waste-fully consume food that is needed for other cattle. People familiar with agricultural districts can support this statement. They could give instances of farms in other districts where cattle are sent from farm to market and from market back to farm, while butchers are calling out for meat but cannot get it owing to the Regulations. I hope that some mitigation will be made so that the people of the country may be able to get the meat that is ready for them.

Major LANE-FOX

I regret very much that this discussion should have been curtailed into the very small amount of time available. The Adjournment should have been asked for, and possibly the House would have granted it on a matter of vital importance to the whole of the country and to the agricultural industry in particular. I need not repeat what has been fully said and is fully known to the hon. and gallant Gentleman (Major Astor), and to the right hon. Gentleman beside him (Mr. Prothero). I am quite certain that their letter boxes for the last month have been absolutely crammed with complaints about the operations of the Ministry of Food in connection with the production of cattle. There is no need for me to elaborate what the hon. Gentleman said who opened this Debate. I can only say that in the north of England the same conditions are prevailing, and all over the country the same things happen. These cattle are being sent to the markets ready for slaughter, and are being returned to the farms, where there is no food to keep them going. In consequence, there is a great waste and loss, not only to the owners, but to the people in general. It is not for me to suggest a remedy, but I would like to suggest two courses which occur to me. We are getting an enormous supply now of American bacon. This has saved our food situation. At the same time, would it not be possible for some of that bacon to be released, or that, instead of bacon, foodstuffs for our own cattle should be brought over to enable us to maintain our own supply. The bacon is filling up the cold storage, which is badly needed for these cattle and for the supply for the people, which might otherwise be ample. If cattle are to be stopped from coming from the market, the Irish cattle should be stopped before the English cattle. That seems obvious, and a regulation about that might be made. I hope something can be done, even now—though great damage has been caused to the cattle industry and food supply—to mitigate the cast-iron regulations which apparently govern the Department, and to bring some common sense to bear.

The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the MINISTRY of FOOD (Major Astor)

I wish to associate myself entirely with what my hon. and gallant Friend has said in regard to the raising of this matter this evening, not that we wish to avoid discussion, but because it is a matter, as has been said, of such interest to the agricultural community and their representatives here and to so many people outside that I should have preferred, if the House could have had a fuller opportunity of discussing it in greater detail than they possibly can do in the few minutes available this evening.

Sir F. BANBURY

Will the Government give time for it?

Major ASTOR

That is a matter for the Leader of the House.

Sir F. BANBURY

Will you ask him?

Major ASTOR

In the very few moments that are available I wish to put as many facts as I can before hon. Members, and I welcome this opportunity of doing so, even in a restricted manner. First of all, I quite realise—and we all realise—the extraordinary difficulty farmers are placed in at the present time. We fully appreciate that. But we are quite confident when they realise the facts and difficulties that we shall be able to count upon their co-operation.

Sir FORTESCUE FLANNERY

More sacrifices!

An HON. MEMBER

Why do not you buy refrigerating plants?

Major ASTOR

First of all, the situation which has arisen is entirely owing to the military programme decided upon by the Allied Governments. So far as the Food Controller is concerned he has to fit his programme of imports of food in with the military requirements of the Allied Governments. In preparing an import programme of foodstuffs my right hon. Friend has acted in consultation with the President of the Board of Agriculture and the Agricultural Departments. They have agreed, and we have all agreed, as to the programme. The Food Controller, no more than the President of the Board of Agriculture, wants to cut down feeding-stuffs—it is obviously not to our interest to do so; we are interested in the maintenance of the production of food—but, owing to the military requirements and programme, we have had to cut down our requirements to a minimum. The figures which have been agreed to have been approved of and settled by the Cabinet with due regard to the military programme.

Mr. LEIF JONES

May we know what tonnage they have allowed?

Major ASTOR

I cannot give the figures. As regards the present situation it is due to a certain extent to the fact that in last August and September we had considerable difficulty in providing meat as growing cattle were not coming forward as well as we expected. They were kept longer on the farms owing to there being a great deal of grass during those months. I can assure hon. Members that the various proposals which have been put forward will receive sympathetic consideration. Some of them are already being considered, and others will be carefully attended to by my right hon. Friend.

May I mention some of the steps which are being taken to relieve the situation? First of all, we are trying to get as much fresh meat consumed as possible, while at the same time reducing the amount of frozen meat which is being consumed. The Army has been taking fresh meat four days a week. Arrangements have now been completed with the War Office whereby the military forces in England will take fresh meat on two additional days—that is to say, they will have fresh home-killed meat for six days per week.

The Navy are taking as much fresh meat as they can, but it is quite obvious that they have to depend to a great extent on frozen meat, since they have to go to sea. We tried to see if we could export any cattle so as to give the Army in France the use of fresh meat, but we found that they were not in a position to deal with the cattle as they had not got the slaughtering arrangements. We are still considering whether it is possible to send any cattle across, and if we did we should, of course, get a quid pro quo from them in the way of frozen meat. As regards storage accommodation and refrigerating accommodation hon. Members are quite wrong in saying we have not got enough storage accommodation. [HON. MEMBERS: "Refrigerating!"] We have got ample refrigerating accommodation for storage purposes, but the difficulty is that the plant is not adapted for freezing. It is quite impossible or practically impossible to use the present plant for freezing. We provided the necessary storage accommodation to meet the situation required by the military programme. There is a shortage of freezing plant in the United States at this moment, and, in addition to that, although we are freezing a certain amount, we find considerable difficulty owing to the lack of skilled men. We have not in the past gone in for freezing and chilling, and we have not, therefore, got the men with the necessary knowledge and skill. We should be very rightly blamed if we froze meat improperly and it went bad and was wasted, and it is impossible to adapt many of the plants for the purpose of freezing meat. As a matter of fact, we are able to obtain a certain amount of relief. We hope to deal with a total of 2,000 tons by chilling, and as far as freezing goes, at present I think we are freezing 4,000 to 5,000 beasts per week, and we hope to work up to a maximum of 8,000. That is all we can hope to do, but it will be of considerable assistance. I only wish we could do more in this way, but normally, in a country where there is always a large quantity of frozen meat, it is only natural that the plant for freezing should not be in existence. We tried to see whether we could preserve the meat by salting, but, unfortunately, we have not got the plant, the casks, the tins or the skilled labour.

As I informed my hon. Friend at Question Time, we are, and for some weeks we have been, slaughtering only first-grade beasts, and we hope to continue that for some time. It has been suggested that we ought to increase the meat ration now, and thus relieve the situation. I am sure the House will agree with me that it is essential to be able to guarantee a fair meat ration from January to April. Whatever we do, there is a strong possibility that the meat ration may be reduced, that it may come down. We want to keep it up in the middle of the winter as much as possible. If we eat the surplus of cattle now, we shall not have them during those months. In providing the meat ration we have to depend upon a given number of home-grown beasts coming forward month by month. We supply them and provide the balance by imported frozen meat, and we shall require from January to April a certain number of cattle, and it is because of that, because we need these cattle later on in the winter, that we cannot increase the meat ration now. We cannot look to any increase of frozen meat from the U.S.A. We cannot rely on any increase of importation on our present expectations. Anything more which comes will be in the nature of a windfall, but we cannot look at it as a certainty. In our opinion it is essential to try to maintain the ration during the winter. As regards damaged grain, as I told my hon. Friend at Question Time, nine-tenths of the applications for licences have been granted already, and our reports are that the machinery is working satisfactorily. I should like to say more about this, but I am afraid that the time at my disposal does not enable me to do so. We are going to have a new Order shortly dealing with composite meals, which, I believe, will be of considerable assistance to the farmer and do away with some of the genuine grievances which have existed in the past.

I have tried to put before the House the facts which explain the situation. We shall be very grateful for any suggestions. I can assure my hon. Friends they will receive sympathetic consideration. But I am perfectly convinced that farmers like every other section of the community are prepared—in fact, desire—to do all in their power to bring the War to a termination. I am sure there is no farmer who is not willing to submit to any inconveniences and difficulties—and he will have to face inconveniences and difficulties during the winter—if by doing so he can do anything to shorten the War even by a few weeks. What is happening in France shows, I think, the Government are justified in concentrating their efforts in bringing the War to an early termination, and I am perfectly certain that when the facts are known—and I have tried to put them briefly before the House—we shall be able to count on the ready co-operation of the farmers whose difficulties we fully appreciate.

It being Half-past Eleven of the clock, Mr. SPEAKER adjourned the House without. Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order.

Adjourned at Half after Eleven o'clock.