CLAUSE 22.—(Qualification of Electors.) (Hansard, 16 October 1918)

Mr. D. WHITE
I beg to move, after the word "as," to insert in the Bill the words "Parliamentary electors or as."
The object of this Amendment is to extend the franchise for the election of education authorities in order to include a very considerable number of men now serving with the Colours who would otherwise be excluded. As the Clause stands, the provision is that the members for an electoral division of an education area shall be elected by the persons registered as local government electors for that division under the Representation of the People Act, 1918. The Amendment provides that they shall be elected by the persons who are registered as Parliamentary electors or as local government electors for the division under the Act. At first sight it may seem that this would rather complicate the matter, but I submit that the practical difficulty would be very easily got over, because in the greater number of Scottish counties and county boroughs—in fact practically in all—the arrangements are similar to those in Glasgow, where there is a consolidated register with asterisks or other marks against the names of various people to show whether they are in the Parliamen- 214 tary or local government register. I know that it may seem rather a strange thing to say that the Parliamentary register should be used for this purpose, but the Parliamentary register is the better register for a great many purposes. Only the other day I received a communication from a very important representative body in Scotland urging that the Parliamentary register should be used.
I have said that a very considerable number of gallant men who are at present serving at the front would be disfranchised so far as the election of education authorities is concerned if the register were limited to local government electors. In support of that I would like to give the figures for Glasgow which were supplied to me by my right hon. Friend the Secretary for Scotland just before the House rose. I asked him if he could state the number of unmarried men serving with the Forces of the Crown who were Parliamentary but not local government electors in Glasgow, and if he could say whether the number was estimated to be about 30,000. He replied that he understood that so far as could be estimated at present 30,000 naval and military voters would be on the Parliamentary but not on the local government register in Glasgow, but it was not possible to say how many of them were unmarried. The House will see that if this franchise is limited to-local government electors the effect will be not to enfranchise some 30,000 men serving with the Colours so far as Glasgow is concerned. It may be said that a great many of them are unmarried. My right hon. Friend was unable to give me any statistics as to that, but though a considerable number of them may be unmarried, I can assure my right hon. Friend that a very considerable number are married, and very likely, owing to high war rents and war prices and the difficulties of living, they have given up their homes for the time being and their wives and families are living with friends and relatives. There is a vast number of these, and I maintain it would be deplorable if these men, who are serving their country at the front, were deprived of the franchise for electing these education authorities. If we take the number in Glasgow as 30,000, and accept it as the proper proportion for the rest of the country, if we bear in mind, too, that Glasgow contains rather more than one-fifth of the total population of Scotland, we shall see that the numbers serving at 215 the front who would be deprived of the right to elect the educational authorities would probably be somewhere between 130,000 and 150,000. It is a very serious matter that they should be disfranchised both on general grounds and particularly for the reasons I have stated, and in order that these men who are fighting at the front should have the privilege of voting for these authorities, I beg to move this Amendment, and I hope my right hon. Friend may see his way to accept it.

§ Mr. BOLAND
I beg to second the Amendment.
The figures which have just been given by the hon. Member will probably have come upon the House as something of a surprise. My own information with regard to the city of Glasgow exactly tallies with the figures given, and it is clear that 30,000 men now serving with the Forces of the Crown will not be allowed to exercise the franchise as far as the Education Act is concerned. One statement made by my hon. Friend—that no new register will be required—is to my mind very important. I can imagine that the Secretary for Scot-land at this stage of the Bill might say that he could not make any concession of this kind, as it might involve a new register. But that is not necessary, as I understand that the register now in existence can be utilised without a single change. May I say further that in view of the very valuable Report issued the other day by the Reconstruction Committee dealing with the question of adult education, a Report in which it is laid down that one of the most necessary things to be done is not merely to look after the education of children and young persons, but to enable grown-up men and women to also have these educational advantages, it will be a little bit of a slap in the face to the men serving with the forces if they are not to be allowed to vote on the question of education for themselves, as well as for the children of the country. That is an unreasonable position to take up, and I therefore hope the Secretary for Scotland will see his way to accept the Amendment.

§ Mr. CLYDE
I am by no means certain of what I am going to say, but I am nearly certain that if this Amendment were adopted these elections would be hopelessly unworkable. It is all very well to say that for local government purposes you want to make use of the Parliamentary 216 register. But that is not all. You will also want to make use of the whole of the machinery, particularly with regard to soldiers and sailors, which is to be set up for Parliamentary elections. That is a very much larger concern. Under this Bill the Regulations for the election are to be made by the Department, and therefore I suppose what this Amendment really contemplates is that the Department should make a separate Regulation so as to bring into complete operation the entire machinery from top to bottom for recording and collecting the votes of absent soldiers and sailors. If that is not the intention, the object which the hon. Member has in view cannot be accomplished, for it is no use saying you are to use the Parliamentary register if you are not going to give the absent sailors and soldiers the power of voting.

Mr. WHITE
I think my right hon. Friend has overlooked the fact that the Act is not to come into operation until the "appointed day," and by the appointed day we hope that these difficulties which he is suggesting will have passed away.

§ Mr. CLYDE
I am very far from overlooking that, but I assume that one important point with regard to the soldiers and sailors is that they may be absent at the election, and you want to give them the power of voting; otherwise the Amendment will be worthless. If the soldiers and sailors are to be treated in this matter as in the matter of Parliamentary elections, my answer is that that cannot be done by this Amendment, and if you attempt to make a regulation to enable it to be done the expense which will be involved would be out of all question. This is not a practicable thing. It is no use looking at the matter in an idealistic frame of mind. It is but a very short time ago that the Legislature made up its mind, when reviewing the whole question of electoral rights and electoral tests, that there should be a Local Government register and a Parliamentary register. I think we must accept that decision of the House, and it would be unreasonable, so soon after it had been arrived at, to say that we will have another register which would be a hotchpotch of both the Local Government and the Parliamentary register. I do not think we ought to make a third and fancy register, even if we did think that Parliament was wrong in having decided to have two registers. Parliament having 217 made up its mind, it seems only reasonable to accept the local government register for the purposes of electing the educational authorities.

Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTT
The issue before the House is a very simple one. We want this election to be held on the very widest franchise, a franchise which will bring in the largest number of residents in a constituency. We have two registers in existence, and the Amendment suggests that by using both registers we can bring in the largest possible number of electors which the existing machinery will enable us to have. My right hon. Friend, with a very subtle mind, raised a difficulty with regard to the next election, and the machinery for dealing with absent soldiers and sailors. But we are not so much concerned with the next election. What we are concerned with is the permanent position, if there is any difficulty about the next election in regard to absent soldiers and sailors, seeing that that difficulty has already been overcome in the case of Parliamentary elections by machinery being devised for overcoming it, it ought to be equally possible to have an election for the educational authority conducted on similar lines. If the machinery cannot be provided in the Bill now, it surely would be quite easy to introduce it into the Bill in another place. If this Amendment is carried, and if it is necessary to make a further adjustment of the Bill, to secure adequate machinery for carrying out the Amendment, then Amendments in the way of machinery already in being, as regards the new Representation of the People Act, could easily be introduced in another place. I submit that we are dealing with a permanent system, and that we ought here to adopt a system which will bring in the largest number of electors. In Scotland our local government system has been practically identical with the Parliamentary register. It is different under the new Franchise Act, in which a change was made—in the face of some opposition—that was not contemplated in the report of the Speaker's Committee, and the intention of the Scottish Members who were present as members of that Committee was that the system should remain as at present, the local government franchise to be the same as the parliamentary franchise. The House, I believe, is not fully aware of all the conditions. This Amendment would secure 218 what we have had in practice in Scotland in the past, and, in another place the machinery for carrying it out could be perfectly easily embodied.

§ Mr. ADAMSON
The Lord Advocate in the course of his remarks said this question was a practical one. With that statement I entirely agree. I am not sure that he exactly appreciates where the difficulty comes in. The difficulty which this Amendment seeks to remedy has arisen in consequence of the change made by the Representation of the People Act. In consequence of the change made in that Act a large number of young men of Scotland, who previously had the local government vote, have been disfranchised. It does not apply to soldiers and sailors, but it applies to all unmarried men generally. Thousands and thousands of those who have previously had a local government vote, under the new conditions, have been disfranchised, and this Amendment seeks to remedy the damage done them. When the Representation of the People Act was under consideration the Secretary for Scotland undertook to see that the position of the local government vote under the new Bill would be no worse than under the old one. That should have been carried out, because the position of the unmarried male voters in Scotland is very much worse. Thousands upon thousands have been disfranchised, and will not be able, unless a change is made in the law, to exercise the local government vote in future. To such an extent is that the case that the Secretary for Scotland will to-morrow be meeting a large and influential deputation from Scotland to bring that very point before him. I expect that Scottish Members will be interviewed by that deputation. This Amendment seeks to put the matter right, and it should get the sympathetic and favourable consideration of the Secretary for Scotland. I do not think that the young men of Scotland should be disfranchised, though it may have been done by mistake. If it has not been done by mistake, or even if it has, then we ought to take the earliest opportunity of remedying it so far as we can, at any rate, so far as the school board is concerned.