§ Mr. DILLON (by Private Notice)asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant for Ireland whether an immediate and searching inquiry will be held into all the circumstances connected with the sinking of the city of Dublin mail boat "Leinster" whether the reference will be so drawn as to permit of a full investigation into the communications which have passed during the last year between the City of Dublin Company and the Admiralty, in regard to the necessity for protecting the Holyhead mail packets, and the representations which have reached the Admiralty from other quarters on this matter?
§ The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the ADMIRALTY (Dr. Macnamara)My right hon. Friend has asked me to reply, and, in doing so, I desire to say that the Board of Admiralty associates itself with the sympathy with the sufferers which has been so universally expressed.
It is the policy on all occasions of vessels being torpedoed, sunk, or suffering damage, for full reports from the Senior Naval Officer, ships concerned, patrol or escort vessels, or any person who can give any information attending the circumstances of the case to be forwarded. These reports are thoroughly scrutinised, including the circumstances which led up to the casualty. This procedure is being followed in the case of the "Leinster."
As regards the last part of my hon. Friend's question, I have no doubt I interpret him rightly when I surmise that his purpose is to ascertain whether the Admiralty has given due consideration to the representations made to it. On that I can assure him that we have here, as elsewhere, given all the protection possible within the means at our disposal; that, as a result, notwithstanding the deeply deplored losses here involved, the Irish Sea has been rendered at least as immune as 19 any of the waters around the United Kingdom; and, further, were it not that an inquiry, such as my hon. Friend no doubt has in mind, would involve the time and attention of those wholly occupied with work of protecting the Mercantile Marine, the Board of Admiralty would wish nothing better than that the carrying out of its duty should be investigated in the most minute manner.
§ Mr. DILLONAm I to understand, from that reply, that the Board of Admiralty now decline to have a public investigation into this case? The feeling in Dublin and throughout Ireland is intense on this matter, and it is desirable to have it in public.
§ Dr. MACNAMARAThe reason I have given, I think, is a very sufficient reason.
§ Mr. LOUGHIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that large numbers of officers and men are carried on these boats, and will he not promise to extend the same care with regard to the convoying of these troops as is given in other spheres of the War?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAThe hon. Member for the Toxteth Division has given private notice of a question which I am prepared to answer.
§ Mr. HOUSTON (by Private Notice)asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty whether the Irish mail boat "Leinster," which was torpedoed and sunk with great loss of life on Thursday last, 10th instant, shortly after leaving Kingstown, was provided with any escort, and, if not, why not; and can he state who, or which Government Department, is responsible for the safety of cross-Channel boats carrying large numbers of passengers?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAThe "Leinster" was not provided with an escort, nor have the Admiralty any escort forces capable of escorting a vessel whose speed by Lloyd's is 23i knots in the weather and the high sea that prevailed at the time.
At the time of the accident the faster of the escort craft were patrolling the mail route, and, on the distress signal being given, one of the destroyers, patrolling in close proximity, whilst proceeding with all dispatch to the scene, had her forebridge wrecked when attempting to steam between 19 and 20 knots.
20 The view of the Admiralty is, and always has been, that in the case of such fast vessels as the "Leinster," the usual submarine precautions render them infinitely safer proceeding independently on a patrolled route at this high speed than when being escorted by vessels whose speed, when not in the calmest of waters, must inevitably reduce that of the ship escorted. This policy is carried out not only in the Irish Sea, but in all waters surrounding the United Kingdom.
The House might well be reminded that an escort does not ensure the vessel's immunity. As an instance, the "Justicia" when sunk was surrounded by a considerable number of craft, of which many were high-speed vessels.
As regards the last part of the question, the Admiralty are entirely responsible.
§ Mr. HOUSTONIs my right hon. Friend aware that the speed of this vessel since 1917 has been reduced from 23½ knots to 22½ knots, and will he now admit the argument which I put forward that speed alone is no security against enemy submarines?
§ Mr. DILLONMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman, arising out of the answer he has just given, whether he is aware of the fact that it was one hour and twenty-five minutes from the sinking of the "Leinster" when the first rescue boat appeared on the scene?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAI am not aware of that, and if I may repeat part of my original answer, "on the distress signal being given one of the destroyers patrolling in close proximity, whilst proceeding with all dispatch to the scene, had her forebridge wrecked when attempting to steam between 19 and 20 knots."
§ Mr. DILLONHow could she be in close proximity if it took an hour and twenty-five minutes before any rescue vessel appeared on the scene?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAI am not aware of that.
§ Mr. HOUSTONWas it not within 16 miles of Kingstown?
§ Mr. CLANCYWith reference to the statement that sufficient protection has always been given by the Admiralty to these mail boats, does the right hon. Gentleman mean to say that there was any protection given to any of these boats during nine-tenths of all the journeys they have made during the last three years?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAI tried to explain in my answer that a vessel of this speed is not provided with an escort. Our view is, and always has been, that she is infinitely safer proceeding independently than with an escort, which in heavy weather is bound to reduce her speed.
§ Dr. MACNAMARAI am not aware of that.
§ Mr. CLANCYIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that yesterday the Admiralty refused for four hours to provide an escort for the boat travelling across from Kingstown to Holyhead, and that it required a strike of the seamen to procure an escort?
§ Mr. DILLONThe seamen and firemen refused to take her out!
§ Colonel WEDGWOODIs it not a fact that for four years these boats have crossed without being torpedoed?
§ Mr. HOUSTONDoes he realise that the best security for these fast boats is aircraft?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAThat has not been lost sight of.
§ Mr. BYRNEMay I ask whether the Admiralty were aware that twenty-four hours previous to the "Leinster" being sunk two coal boats had been sunk in the Irish Sea, and that within three days before that six coal boats were sunk? Why did they let the mail boat out without an escort, knowing that?
§ Dr. MACNAMARAI am not aware of that, and I can only repeat that the Department responsible for the protection of these boats within the means at its disposal does give infinite pains to these matters, and that is witnessed by the immunity which this sea has enjoyed compared with other parts of the sea round the United Kingdom.
§ Mr. SPEAKERFurther questions must be put on the Notice Paper.