CLAUSE 5.—(Alteration of Enactments Relating to Pensions and Allowances and Gratuities.) (Hansard, 15 November 1918)

§ Mr. BRADY

I beg to move, at the end, to add the words Notwithstanding anything in this Act contained, all existing pensioners and widows of pensioners of both the Royal Irish Constabulary and Dublin Metropolitan Police shall be entitled to all and every increased pensions, gratuities, and allowances granted to members of both police forces by this Act. This, again, raises what we regard as the main question of the pensions to existing pensioners of both forces. I do not like to detain the Committee because their case has been so frequently put on the earlier stages of this Bill, but in view of the fact that we all went home last night—happily, I am entitled to speak at this moment for hon. Members above the Gangway as well as for those on these benches—in the confident hope that the Chief Secretary would communicate this universal view of Irish Members to the Treasury, and would come down here this afternoon and tell us that these poor old pensioners—because many of them are very old men—would be included. Assuming even it did involve a considerable additional charge on the Treasury—I have heard it stated it would be something like £120,000 per annum—it could not possibly remain at that figure for any lengthy time. In a very short time the maximum sum involved would be considerably reduced, and ultimately would entirely disappear. This is the last opportunity that we shall have of appealing to the right hon. Gentleman. We know his sympathies are with 3127 us, and he has told representatives of both forces who have been here as a deputation that he is very anxious—I do not wish to exaggerate his position in this matter, but certainly, speaking for myself, I came to the conclusion that we have the sympathy of the right hon. Gentleman, and that the Treasury alone blocked the way. I do hope, therefore, that he will now tell us that the pensioners of both forces will be included in this Bill.

§ Mr. SHORTT

This is really exactly on the same footing as the last Amendment. The objections to it are exactly the same. The difficulties in the way are exactly the same. As the hon. Gentleman himself has said the case has been put before in Debate, and it has been explained before that the Government do not see their way to grant this request, or to accept this Amendment. I regret that anything I said or did last night should have raised any undue hopes in my hon. Friend's breast, for if I did that by what I did say, goodness only knows what hopes might have been raised in his breast if I really had put forward any hope! We have said all along that it was quite impossible to accept the Amendment. I do not therefore think I could possibly have led anyone to believe anything to the contrary last night, or that the Government were likely to alter their minds between last night and to-day. Every object, every difficulty existing in respect to the last Amendment exists also in respect to this. For that and other reasons which I have expressed before, I regret that I am unable to accept this Amendment.