HC Deb 07 May 1918 vol 105 cc1967-9
16. Sir GEORGE TOULMIN

asked the Pensions Minister why the discharged lunatic soldier classed as a Service patient is differently treated, as regards allowances, from all other discharged men undergoing treatment?

18. Mr. PENNEFATHER

asked whether of the 27s. 6d. a week treatment allowance payable to a discharged soldier undergoing treatment for his invaliding disability as an in-patient the balance of 15s. 6d., after deducting 7s. a week maintenance charge and 5s. a week pocket-money for the man, is usually paid to the wife of a married man; and, if so, will he say why the same arrangement is not made in the case of a Service patient in a county or borough lunatic asylum?

The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the MINISTRY of PENSIONS (Sir A. Griffith-Boscawen)

The ordinary allowances for men undergoing treatment are fixed on a deliberately generous scale in order to induce the men to accept treatment, which they frequently do at the sacrifice of remunerative employment. In the case of lunatics, who may be confined for life, and who are not sacrificing employment, it is considered that the State makes just provision for the families by granting such allowances as, together with any balance of the man's pension not required for his own maintenance and comforts, will secure to the families the full pensions payable to widows and their children.

Colonel Lord HENRY CAVENDISH-BENTINCK

Can the hon. and gallant Gentleman say whether a lunatic is not sometimes discharged from an asylum cured?

Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWEN

Yes, that is the case. A Service patient is in the same position as an ordinary private patient, and I understand that if he is not dangerous to himself and others and proper provision can be made for him he can be discharged.

Mr. PENNEFATHER

Is the hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that the dependants of a discharged soldier in hospital are 18s. a week better off than the dependants of a lunatic soldier who is classed as a Service patient?

Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWEN

No, my hon. Friend is not quite correct. It depends entirely on whether the pensioner who is undergoing treatment has made an allotment of the balance to his wife and family. He may not do it, and in many cases he does not do it, and in that case it stands to his credit and is paid to him afterwards. That is a case where the man is undergoing temporary treatment, but it is quite another proposition where a man may be confined for life, as unfortunately is the case with many of these poor lunatics.

Lord H. CAVENDISH-BENTINCK

These men are not necessarily confined for life.

Mr. HOGGE

Is it a tact that in the case that a lunatic Service patient who is regarded as a dead soldier, and his widow and children are entitled therefore to the allowances for a widow and children, the wife and children are entitled to apply for an alternative pension as long as the man is a Service lunatic pensioner?

Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWEN

I do not think the wife could apply for an alternative widow's pension, but I do not see any reason why an alternative disabled man's pension should not be given to the man under those circumstances, and I believe that this case has actually arisen.

Mr. HOGGE

How can a lunatic Service patient regarded as dead apply for an alternative pension? Can the hon. and gallant Gentleman say definitely whether in these circumstances the wife and children can apply for an alternative pension?

Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWEN

I have already said that I think they can apply, and that it has taken place in a particular case.

Colonel Sir CHARLES SEELY

The hon. and gallant Gentleman talked about a lunatic Service soldier making an allotment. How can he do so? Is there some special arrangement by which the difficulty is got over?

Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWEN

My hon. and gallant Friend apparently did not notice my original answer, in which I said that any balance of the pension over and above his keep was paid to the wife.

Sir C. SEELY

You said they made an allotment.

17. Sir MONTAGUE BARLOW

asked the number of men who have been discharged from the Navy and the Army on account of mental affliction who have received treatment as Service patients in county or borough lunatic asylums; and how many of these have now been allowed to leave these asylums and return home?

Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWEN

About 1,900 men have received treatment as Service patients, and of these about fifty have been discharged as recovered.

Mr. OUTHWAITE

Is the percentage of discharges from lunatic asylums of soldiers as great as amongst officers who are otherwise treated as mental cases?

Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWEN

If my hon. Friend wants the exact figures he must give me notice.