§ 34. Colonel YATEasked the Pensions Minister when there will be a new Royal Warrant dealing with and increasing the pensions of officers and their families in the same manner as the Royal Warrant dealing with the pensions of soldiers and their families which came into operation on 1st May of this year?
§ The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the MINISTRY of PENSIONS (Sir A. Griffith-Boscawen)The Royal Warrants for officers and men are still, by reason of the proper reservation of the various rights of the former, on very different lines, and except in one important particular, which I have under my consideration, the changes introduced by the Warrant of the 17th April, 1918, applying to men, do not require a revision of the Warrant of the 1st August, 1917, which applies to officers.
§ Colonel YATEWhen dealing with soldiers' pensions, should not all soldiers be treated on an equal footing, and when an increase is granted to one rank should it not be granted to another?
§ Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWENThe conditions under which pensions are 494 granted to officers has always been quite different from those under which they are granted to men, and some of the changes made recently in the men's Warrant are really not applicable to officers, but we are considering at all events one important change.
§ Colonel YATEWill that change benefit the officers?
§ Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWENCertainly.
§ 35. Colonel YATEasked the Pensions Minister whether there is to be any differentiation between the treatment of officers and men as regards the amount of pension to be awarded being dependent on what the pensioner may be able to earn?
§ Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWENThe ordinary rates of pension for disability laid down in the Schedules of the Royal Warrants, both for officers and men, depend not on earnings but on degree of physical disablement. As regards alternative pensions, the average earnings of which the pensioner is judged capable are equally a factor in all eases, whether the pensioner is an officer or soldier.
§ 36. Mr. HOGGEasked the Pensions Minister whether he received an appeal on 6th March from the National Federation of Discharged and Demobilised Sailors and Soldiers on behalf of T. R. Mann; whether a reply was sent on 8th June, three months later, stating that application should be made through the local war pensions committee, who would inquire into the case (Reference No. 3,813 P); whether this means that if the appeal is successful the man may lose three months' increase of pension; whether there are now over 1,000 similar appeals pending from the same organisation; and whether he proposes to deal with those in a similar way?
§ Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWENI have not been able to identify the particular case referred to, as the rank and regiment are not stated, and there appears to be no such reference number at Chelsea as that which is quoted. I may, however, explain that if an appeal for increase of pension is successful, the increase is dated back to the time of the first application, whether it be addressed to the local committee or to the Ministry direct. With regard to the latter part of the question, I would remind my hon. Friend that a local committee now has power to increase 495 a pension provisionally, if, in the opinion of the medical referee, the man's condition has become worse, so that the pension he receives no longer accords with the extent of the disablement. I would therefore suggest that, in the interests of the men, my hon. Friend should at once send the 1,000 cases he mentions to the appropriate local committees.
§ Mr. HOGGEIs the hon. Gentleman aware that what he says about local war pension committees being able to do that is altogether destroyed by the circular issued from his Department saying that they only do it in very exceptional cases? Will he also inform the House how many applications for pensions have been paid back to the date of application, and explain how people who have made application through the ordinary channels are to get the money to which they are entitled?
§ Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWENWith regard to the first question, if the hon. Member and his supporters continue to send cases direct to the Ministry instead of to the local committees they are merely delaying the advantage which would otherwise accrue to the men. In regard to the second question, in all cases where an increased pension is granted the increase dates from the time of the first application, if it is conceded that the pension should have been higher.
§ Mr. HOGGEIs the hon. Gentleman aware that he and his Ministry have had to appoint a system of inspectors in order to enable the local war pensions committees to do the work, and are we who represent our constituents to be deprived of the opportunity of advocating their claims because his committees cannot do their work?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThat is wide of the question on the Paper.
§ 33. Colonel ASHLEYasked the Pensions Minister whether, in view of the privilege extended to soldiers whose claim for a disability pension is refused, on the ground that their disability is not attributable to military service, of appealing to a Special Tribunal, he will consider the advisability of setting up a similar Appeal Tribunal for the purpose of dealing with the case of officers who claim that their disability is owing to or was aggravated by military service but who have been unsuccessful in obtaining pensions?
§ Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWENAs I informed the House in reply to a question on the 15th May last, such a tribunal as is now asked for by the hon. and gallant Member is already in existence.
§ 37. Mr. WATTasked the Pensions Minister whether his attention has been called to advertisements recently appearing for divisional officers (men) for local pensions committees in Scotland; whether outsiders with no knowledge of the work were appointed to such posts at salaries averaging £200 a year; whether he is aware that in each of the local pensions committee's employment there were men well qualified for such posts who had been some time in the committees' service and that these men, at half the salaries of the new appointees, are now fully occupied teaching the new men the details of their duties; and, if so, will he say why, having regard to economy, these appointments have been made?
§ Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWENAlthough the question refers generally to Scotland, I think I may safely assume that it is the Glasgow local committee which the hon. Member has in mind. As I in-formed him in reply to a question put to me on 11th March, the Glasgow Committee have lately been reorganised under the direction of an experienced officer of the Ministry. Part of the scheme of reorganisation consisted in decentralising the work by the setting up of ten district committees, each with its own offices and each under the administrative control of a paid male officer. In view of the existing circumstances it was thought advisable to invite applications for these new posts by public advertisement. With regard to the second part of the question, it is only reasonable to expect that the newly-appointed officers, however competent, can profitably be instructed in the details of the work by experienced members of the staff.
§ Mr. WATTWas not this reorganisation carried out because the local committees did not do their work?
§ Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWENI am not prepared to say that the local committees do not do this work, but we thought that if it was reorganised on these lines they would do the work better, and I think that will be the result.
§ Mr. PRINGLEHow long is it estimated it will take before these inexperienced people will know what the job is?
§ Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWENThey are not inexperienced people. They are men thoroughly qualified for the work.
§ 38. Mr. STANTONasked the Pensions Minister if his Department will see that full-time secretaries are employed by local pension committees; is he aware that much time and loss could be saved to the committees and departments if active full-time secretaries were employed; and will his Department see that the applicants are treated with consideration?
§ Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWENIt is my view that a local committee ordinarily requires the whole-time services of at least one chief officer responsible for the administrative business of the committee, and I have impressed this on local committees in official circulars and correspondence. With regard to the last part of the question, my Department always investigate, through the agency of their inspectorate, any charges of inconsiderate treatment on the part of local committees, such treatment being, of course, totally at variance with all the principles on which the Department is administered.
§ Mr. HOGGECan the hon. Gentleman say how many complaints of this kind he gets on an average per day?
§ Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWENMy hon. Friend must give me notice of that question.
§ Mr. STANTONCan the hon. Gentleman say how many of these appointments have been made where the local committees have fixed up people who are already in possession of a decent salary and really have no time to do this work; whereas for £200 a year many people would be willing to do the work effectively and well?
§ Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWENThe majority of the committees already have these whole-time officials, and in other cases we are impressing upon them the necessity of doing so wherever there is a large volume of work.
§ Mr. STANTONIs the hon. Gentleman aware of the large number of complaints we get, and that we are only anxious to see that this work is carried out successfully?
§ Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWENI am quite aware of that, and we are most anxious that the work should be carried 498 on successfully. I am glad to say that the number of complaints we receive is constantly diminishing.
§ Mr. STANTONThey come to us!
§ 48. Mr. HOGGEasked whether, in view of the fact that young lads under nineteen are now being used in the firing line and that there are numerous casualties, the Government propose to allow any special compensation to dependants in view of the promise given earlier that they were not to be put in the firing line until they were nineteen?
§ Sir A. GRIFFITH-BOSCAWENThe Government do not see their way to adopt this suggestion. The basis of compensation paid to dependants is loss of support, and it would not be practicable to modify this basis by taking into account the age at which the soldier is put into the firing line.
§ Mr. HOGGEAs this is a question of policy, does the right hon. Gentleman not see that a new situation arises if boys under nineteen are killed, seeing that in ordinary circumstances the pension or gratuity to parents depends on the separation allowances, and in the circumstances is it not right to make a special arrangement?
§ Mr. HARCOURTWas not the assurance referred to in the last part of the question given, and if so, is it not possible to make a special arrangement?
§ The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER (Mr. Bonar Law)I do not agree with the hon. Member for Edinburgh that this is a question of policy. It is a question of administration, and the answer must be given by the Departments concerned. As regards the promise, the House is well aware that what was stated was that they would not be taken unless a national emergency rendered it necessary.
§ Sir E. CARSONWill the right hon. Gentleman consider whether dependants in these circumstances might not be given: a grant of land?
§ 53. Sir J. BUTCHERasked the Prime Minister whether his attention has been called to the numerous resolutions which have been passed by public and other bodies throughout the country demanding an increased allowance for the wives and 499 children of serving soldiers and sailors; and will he say what action he proposes to take thereon?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWI can add nothing to what I said on this subject in Debate on the 18th instant, to which I would refer my hon. and learned Friend.
§ Sir J. BUTCHERDo I understand my Tight hon. Friend to say that he is considering the subject with a view to a speedy decision?
§ Mr. BONAR LAWYes. I gave that undertaking.