§ 67. Mr. STANTONasked the Minister of National Service if he is satisfied that his Department is granting the same equality of treatment to small private traders in regard to managers and business heads of departments as to those of the large co-operative societies; and are the military representatives instructed to be as strict with the one as the other at the tribunals?
§ 72. Sir ALFRED YEOasked the Minister of National Service whether he is aware that instructions have been issued to regional advisory committees in each division, with power to give or grant protection certificates to general managers, secretaries, departmental managers, buyers and managers of branch stores of industrial co-operative societies; and, seeing that these do not include owners of one-man businesses, will he say why the same instructions are not issued for the proprietors of one-man busnesses, and will he have the same instructions issued at once?
§ Sir A. GEDDESThere appears to be some misunderstanding about the effect of the recent arrangement made with the industrial and co-operative societies. The procedure referred to by my hon. Friend the Member for Tower Hamlets refers solely to certain indispensable men engaged in, or responsible for, the retail distribution of food, whose cases are considered by regional advisory committees, composed of equal numbers of representatives of the society and officials of the Ministry of National Service under the chairmanship of a representative of the Ministry.
Food retailers trading on their own account have also received special consideration from the Ministry of National Service on the recommendation of the Ministry of Food.
The difference in procedure is due to the fact that the co-operative societies are highly organised and can be dealt 1792 with as a unit, whereas at present the owners of one-man businesses are not organised on similar lines. I would welcome their organisation, so that their cases might be dealt with in the same simple way; and if they will organise by regions, we will at once form similar committees, so that the waste of manpower which arises from their unorganised state may be eliminated. The present arrangements do not, in my opinion, give any ground for the belief that one-man food retail businesses are less favourably treated than co-operative food retailers. They have been made not in the interest of the traders as such, but to maintain the effective distribution of food.
§ Sir A. YEODoes not the right hon. Gentleman see that this is preferential treatment, and that the little man has just as much right to be treated exactly in the same way as the multiple-shop trades or the co-operative society?
§ Sir A. GEDDESI think my hon. Friend is under a misapprehension.
§ Sir A. YEONot at all.
§ Sir A. GEDDESThe position at the present moment is quite clear. The one-man-business man is not receiving less considerate treatment in any way than the co-operative society. The whole question has arisen on the retail distribution of food, and the policy which is being followed is simply to maintain satisfactory retail distribution. As a matter of fact, because of the unorganised condition of the one-man business system of shops, the one-man business man engaged in the retail distribution of food on the average receives more consideration than the individuals engaged by, and acting for co-operative societies.
§ Sir A. YEOCan the right hon. Gentleman inform me of one co-operative society which has been shut down in comparison with the thousands of small shopkeepers who have had to join the Army? I would like an answer to that question.
§ Sir A. YEOI should think so!
§ Mr. PETOApart from the one-man businesses, which the right hon. Gentleman says are unorganised, why is there no representation of that part of the trade which is organised, and only representation of the co-operative societies on these tribunals?
§ Sir A. GEDDESThese are not tribunals in the ordinary acceptance of the word. There is, as hon. Members are aware, a great deal of difficulty at the present time to maintain the retail distribution of food because of the heavy claims on transport. Advisory committees, of a type which has been established for two years, have been appointed to deal with the cases of employés of co-operative societies. There is no change in principle, and if in any case the one-man business is combined, as has been the case in certain instances, exactly similar treatment will be given. It is purely a matter of procedure.
Sir F. HALLMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman if his reply is supposed to be an invitation to people to combine in order to get what is necessary from the Government, and that they can only obtain it by that means?
§ Sir A. GEDDESFar from it. We have done everything that we can to help and assist the one-man-business men consistent with the needs of obtaining men for the forces. This arrangement with the cooperative societies is designed to secure economy in the use of man-power. It is not designed to secure protection for individuals. Economy in the use of man-power is our aim, at the same time as we maintain a satisfactory distribution of food. It only refers to food distribution, and to nothing else.
Sir F. HALLMay I ask if the economy of man-power is limited to being provided by the big stores at the expense of these people in the one-man businesses?
§ Sir A. GEDDESNo; it is the other way.
§ Sir A. YEONot at all!
§ 70. Mr. JOWETTasked the Minister of National Service if he is aware that loss and hardship is being inflicted in many instances by the refusal of military service tribunals to grant sufficient time to owners of small businesses who have been refused exemption from military service and who cannot find purchasers for their businesses or persons willing to occupy during their absence to dispose of their fixtures and stock; and whether, if such cases are brought to his notice, he is prepared to consider them, with a view to postponing the calling-up notices for periods of time according to his discretion?
§ Sir A. GEDDESNo, Sir; I am not aware that the conditions are as stated by the hon. Member. Special instructions have been given to tribunals with regard to men engaged in one-man businesses, and even where exemption is refused I understand that they frequently recommend a period of delay before the man is required to report for service. Further, directors of National Service of regions have discretion to postpone calling up in a case in which exceptional circumstances appear to justify such a course.
§ Sir A. YEOIs the right hon. Gentleman prepared to receive evidence if we present cases of hardship where men have been given five days in which to sell their businesses of the value of £4,000 or £5,000?
§ Sir A. GEDDESOh, yes; we are always only too delighted to receive evidence.