TRADE BOARDS BILL (Hansard, 22 July 1918)

HC Deb 22 July 1918 vol 108 cc1480-610 1480

§ As amended (in the Standing Committee), considered.

§ Mr. SPEAKER
The first Amendment, in the name of the hon. Member for Carlisle (Mr. Denman), is beyond the scope of the Bill. It deals with the application of the Bill to agriculture, but agriculture is a wholly different subject—not a trade, but an industry.

§ 4.0 P.M.

§ Mr. DENMAN
Might I point out to you the difficulty in which we are placed in regard to your ruling. In the Committee upstairs the Minister in charge of the Bill assured us that he, by Order under this Bill, could apply it to agriculture. The ruling you gave is final in this House, but it would not be binding in the Courts of law nor on a Minister administering the Bill. After this Bill has been passed and becomes law, if the Minister makes an Order, only the Courts of law can set it aside. The Amendment which I wish to-move is intended to safeguard the interests of agriculture against such an Order being made, and without the Amendment that safeguard would, of course, be absent. It seems to me the position is a 1481 very serious one, and I would, therefore, like to press for a reconsideration of the ruling.

§ Mr. SPEAKER
I cannot state what course may be pursued by the Minister who may have to administer the Bill, but I would point out that quite recently agriculture has been treated differently, and an Act has been passed setting up full machinery for dealing with these matters.

§ Mr. DENMAN
But that was only a temporary measure which will come to an end automatically in 1922, and the Minister will then be in a position in which, if he thinks it necessary, he may set up a trade board for agriculture under the Trade Boards Acts. May I say, on the merits of the question, there is reason for thinking that a portion of the Agricultural Act to which you have referred—the Corn Production Act—applies to an agricultural trade? It applies to market gardens which, under the Bankruptcy Act of 1869, are declared to be a trade, and there is no possible doubt that the Minister could make a special Order under the Trade Boards Bill which would apply to market gardens. In these circumstances I submit that the safeguard I am proposing is necessary for that branch of Agriculture.

§ Mr. SPEAKER
We have, never treated agriculture as a trade. Indeed, it has a separate code of legislation to deal with it, and it is not included in any of the matters dealt with by the original Trade Boards Act.

§ Mr. DENMAN
The workers in it have a trade union, and if they are organised in a trade union, they can surely reasonably anticipate coming under the Trade Boards Act?

§ Mr. SPEAKER
I cannot argue any further with the hon. Member. I have taken a broad view of the situation, and I cannot believe the agricultural community ever expected that they would be included in the Trade Boards Act, nor was any such suggestion made on the Second Reading. Neither do I believe that when the House passed the Second Reading it contemplated agriculture being treated as a trade. For these reasons, which seem to be general, broad, and sufficient, I feel bound to rule that the hon. Gentleman's Amendment is beyond the scope of the Bill.

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