CLAUSE 51.—(Short Title, Construction Extent, and Commencement.) (Hansard, 16 July 1918)

§ Mr. KING
I beg to move, in Sub-section (3), after the word "day" ["shall be such day"], to insert the words not later than two years after the passing of this Act or one year after the termination of the present War, whichever date shall be the later. I called attention yesterday, in the course of the discussion, to the fact that there is no reason why this Act should ever come into force at all. There is no reason whatever. It is to come into force after the appointed day, and the appointed day may be any day that the Board of Education likes. It may be a different day for any part of the country, and a different day for any educational section of any particular local authority. It may be one day for higher education in Yorkshire or London, and another day, and quite a different day, for elementary education or for continuation schools in Yorkshire or London as the case may be. Now I want our labours to bear some fruit in our lifetime. I actually want to see the result of my labours on this Bill, and I also want the President of the Board of Education to live to see the result of his really admirable work in this direction. Why cannot he therefore fix a definite date in this Act and say that "thus far shall we delay and no farther; when we reach that point, the Act must come into force." If, of course, the War is prolonged beyond the expectation and imagination of us all, 962 or if such a state of collapses, revolution, confusion, exhaustion, or financial bankruptcy should be brought about, why then, of course, Parliament must legislate for the emergency, and it will do so. But I see no reason whatever why this Amendment should not be adopted. Some of the Amendments I have brought forward to this Bill have had the purpose of improving the objects of this legislation. Some have been moved in order to restrict certain tendencies. Others to enlarge the proposals, but this proposal can evoke nothing but sympathy from the Board of Education, and from everybody who has supported this Bill. We must all desire to see the result of our labours as soon as possible. We can utter a prayer to that effect, and we have an opportunity of giving effect to our own pious prayer, which very few human beings have it in their power to do. On this point we are omnipotent, and I invite the House to give effect to its prayer.

§ Mr. RENDALL
I beg to second the Amendment.

Mr. FISHER
It is not with any lack of sympathy with the spirit and language of the hon. Member for North Somerset (Mr. King) that I rise to speak to this Amendment. But I believe its acceptance to be undesirable for very obvious reasons. In the first place, we hope that a very large portion of the Bill will be brought into operation at once. In the second place, with respect to other portions of the Bill, we are still in a state of uncertainty as to the duration of the War. I think, perhaps, the most convenient course I can take at this juncture will be to fulfil the pledge I gave to the hon. Member for Salford (Sir M. Barlow) in the course of the Committee stage, and communicate to the House a rough preliminary idea which must not be taken to bind us, of the times and seasons at which we expect and hope to bring into force the Clauses of this Bill. If we take Clauses 1 to 6, regard must be had to the depletion of the staffs of the Board of Education, and of the local education authorities, and we must allow time for the local education authorities to frame their schemes and discuss them with the Board. Subject to this we hope Clauses 1 to 6 can be brought into operation at an early date. Clause 7 (Provision as to Amount of Expenditure for Education), will, I hope, be brought into operation at once. Clause 8, Sections 1 and 2, which regulate the leaving age at elementary schools, will not come into force until the 963 end of the War. Clause 8, Section 3, raising the commencing age for compulsory attendance at elementary schools, may be deferred. Clause 8, Sections 4, 5, and 6 (Attendance at Special Subject Centres), will come into operation at once. Clause 9 will come into operation at an early date or at once. Clauses 10 to 14 will not come into operation until the end of the War. Clause 15, at once. Clause 16, Sections (a) and (b), at once. Clause 17, at once. Clause 18, at once. Clause 19, at once. Clause 20, at the end of the War and, in the case of residential schools in counties, seven years later. Clause 21, at once. Clause 22, at once. Clauses 23 and 24, at once. Clause 25, probably the 1st April, 1919. Clause 26, at once. Clause 27, as soon as convenient. Clauses 28 to 40, at once. Clause 42, at once. Clause 43, the 1st April, 1919. Clauses 44 to 49, at once. Clause 51, at once.

Sir M. BARLOW
I am obliged to the right hon. Gentleman for carrying out his pledge in so satisfactory a manner. We understand the difficulties in the way of giving more than a general indication. May I venture to make one suggestion? When this Act comes into operation it is going to produce an enormous revolution in education throughout the country. It will not be possible for us to set to work to have illustrated issues of the Act printed in these times, but would it not be possible for the Board to have printed the gist of this Act with the Clauses of the earlier Act which remain in force, and to issue it in the form of a 1s. handbook? I believe it would be of immense assistance to the authorities throughout the country, and I am sure they would be very glad to avail themselves of it, while the Board might even make a little money out of it.

§ Sir F. BANBURY
I beg to move, at the end, to add the words: Provided that the appointed day for the purposes of Sub-sections (1) and (2) of Section eight shall not be earlier than the termination of the present War, and for the purposes of paragraph (3) of Sub-section (2) of Section thirteen shall not be earlier than three years after the passing of this Act. This carries out a promise given by my right hon. Friend, and I understand he accepts it.

Mr. FISHER
Yes.

§ Sir HENRY HIBBERT
I beg to move, after the words last inserted, to add the words: Provided that for a period of seven years from the appointed day the duty of the council of a county (other than the London County Council) shall not include a duty to establish certified schools for boarding and lodging physically defective and epileptic children. I may say at once that the County Councils Association strongly support Clause 20, which deals with the education of physically defective and epileptic children. But we realise, and I think the House will realise, that time must be given for bringing this Clause into operation, especially in county areas where the difficulties will be greater even than in boroughs. It might indeed be easy to carry out the proposal in boroughs, but in the counties the schools for dealing with these children will have to be necessarily in almost every case residential institutions. That has been hinted at many times in the course of the Debate, and time will have to be given before schools can possibly be built. I have only one other word to say. I do not know whether I am in order in saying it, but I should like to take this opportunity, on behalf of the County Councils of England and Wales, of thanking the right hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of Education and also his staff for the extreme courtesy and consideration we have received at their hands on many different occasions. I am perfectly certain that to that accuracy and consideration is due much of the favourable reception which has been accorded to this measure.

§ Sir R. ADKINS
I beg to second the Amendment for the reasons which have already been given by my hon. Friend. Undoubtedly the county authorities will find the matter extremely difficult of arrangement and will need time in consequence.

Mr. FISHER
I am very glad to accept the Amendment.

§ Mr. KING
I am very sorry for this whittling away of one of the best provisions of the Bill—one of the most beneficent objects that could be undertaken in the Bill—and I very much regret that the right hon. Gentleman has so readily accepted the proposal. We are just leaving this Bill; this is the last Amendment upon it. I think it might have left a better taste in our mouths if a somewhat more generous action had been taken by the President on this occasion. What is the position? The 965 Bill contains a most excellent provision, by which elementary school children whose home conditions are unfortunate for various reasons may be turned out at the public expense, and have their elementary education given to them as well as their board. That is a most admirable provision, and if worked well it will solve a large number of difficulties. It will solve the difficulty of scattered population in places where there are half a dozen children, perhaps five or six miles from any school. It will solve the difficulty of certain slum cases, it will solve the difficulty to some extent of the influx of population where there is not sufficient school accommodation for children who have to be educated. The case has often arisen in the War and it might frequently arise in the period of reconstruction after.
But, for some reason or other, we are not to have these advantages for seven years after the end of the War, and I can quite understand the spirit in which able and public-spirited administrators, like my hon. Friend the Member for Chorley, and my hon. Friend the Member for Middleton, saying, "Oh, don't tie us down now. Give us time." That I quite understand. But when the President of the Board of Education, with surprising readiness, concedes this Amendment put forward on behalf of a large county council, without giving any valid reason for accepting it, it certainly does not fill one with admiration or confidence. I do think we ought to have some assurance from another representative of the Education Board whom I see on the Treasury Bench that an item of this Bill, which is inconvenient to powerful authorities, will not be "chucked" overboard at once—that is what it looks like, and that the readiness to concede to powerful interests of which we have had too many instances will not be a constant feature of the administration of this Act.