HC Deb 09 July 1918 vol 108 cc264-7

Notwithstanding anything contained in any Act, Order, or Regulation, it shall be lawful for any liability company, formed or to be formed, and having for its principal object the cultivation in the United Kingdom of flax or the provision of the supplies thereof, to make an issue of shares to the public without reference to the Treasury Committee on Issues.—[Sir C. Hobhouse.]

Brought up, and read the first time.

Sir C. HOBHOUSE

I beg to move. "That the Clause be read a second time."

I quite recognise the force of what the right hon. Gentleman says that it would be impossible to give to one set of persons powers not generally enjoyed, but I ask him, how is he going to get over the point of the control of the price of the article produced when the only persons who can come to the financial assistance of the grower are a certain small number of people, powerful financially and from the point of view of manufacture, in one particular centre? Belfast is the centre of the linen trade. It is interested in the growth of flax in the North of Ireland. It is not interested at present in the growth of flax in the South of Ireland, and I am very much afraid that Belfast will not be in favour at any time of the growth of flax in a part of Ireland where a rival linen industry can be created. That is the danger I feel, and which I know persons who are interested in the growth of flax in the South of Ireland also feel. Is there no way by which the right hon. Gentleman can, by fixing the minimum price at which the grower shall sell to any persons taking advantage of this guarantee, protect the grower against a monopolist bargain? If the right hon. Gentleman can meet me in this matter I have nothing more to say either at this stage or any other stage of the Bill. It is a real danger, and a danger that will not expand the growing of flax in the South of Ireland or different parts of England, such as Dorsetshire and Somersetshire, in the way that we want flax to be grown.

Mr. FORSTER

If the proposals in this Bill were really confined to the linen trade and if we were giving to the powerful bodies to which the right hon. Gentleman has referred powers which we were not giving to anybody else, I think there would to a great deal of force in the view which he has expressed. But these powers are not in any way confined to the linen trade. I should be very sorry if, there are no other persons outside the linen trade who are prepared to render assistance in flax production. There are important companies working in Ireland which I hope will take advantage of the powers that are given to them. My right hon. Friend referred to the powers of companies to issue shares without Treasury sanction, even although their shares could not be dealt with on the Stock Exchange. If they have those powers and wish to make use of them this Bill does not deprive them of the powers to make such of them. I hope it may be found that such companies will feel it to be to their interest to borrow money for the purpose of assisting the flax producers. I think the very natural fears which my right hon. Friend has expressed are really, to a large extent, groundless. He asked me whether we can fix a price at which the producer can sell the flax to the consumer. My impression is that a price is fixed already, and it is fixed at such a high figure, as to make it extremely profitable.

Sir C. HOBHOUSE

For flax, but not flax straw.

Mr. FORSTER

My impression is that that point is covered. However, I will look into it and make sure. I do think that the fears expressed by my right hon. Friend are to a large extent groundless.

Mr. WATT

I think there is some substance in the observations of my right hon. Friend (Sir C. Hobhouse) that something ought to be done to regulate the price at which the flax will be sold. This measure is to encourage the growth of flax, and it is hoped to have the assistance of the flax trade in the North of Ireland. We take it that the North of Ireland will control this scheme. As the right hon. Gentleman has said, the North of Ireland linen industry will not want other districts to be encouraged in the growth of flax, because they will think that that will be to their detriment. They will not want flax to be grown largely in other districts and other branches of the linen trade to be encouraged in those districts. The possibility would be that the North of Ireland linen trade, controlling this industry, will be inclined to sell the flax at a very low price, which will be unremunerative to other districts. The North of Ireland have the advantage of getting a good return in the other branches of the linen trade and it does not matter to them whether the flax-growing trade is remunerative or not, because they will get all they want from the other branches of their trade. That does not apply to the other districts which are to be encouraged, and the low price controlled by the North of Ireland will seriously affect the other districts. That is a matter which requires consideration, and I think the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Forster) ought to consider it and to see that a proper remunerative price is given for the flax when it has been grown, so that other districts in the North of Ireland may be encouraged to grow flax in the large way which it is hoped will be brought about by this Bill.

Question put, and negatived.

Bill reported.

As amended, considered.

Mr. FORSTER

I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read the third time." May I appeal to the House to let me have the further stage of the Bill now?

Sir C. HOBHOUSE

I shall offer no objection to that course as far as I am concerned, but I would only ask my right hon. Friend, if he finds that I am right and that there is a danger of the price being kept down in the way I suggested, that he will secure Regulations which will secure for the grower a fair price. I am only concerned for the grower. If he will do that, I shall be perfectly satisfied.

Mr. BOOTH

There are some Amendments of the Government which have never been on the Paper. They were not on the Paper when they were moved, and I object to this Motion.

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read the third time, and passed.