- (1) For the purpose of giving persons whose names are entered on the absent voters' list an opportunity of voting at a Parliamentary election, the returning officer shall, where an election is contested, as soon as practicable after the adjournment of the election, send a ballot paper to each such person at the address entered against his name on the absent voters' list in the register together with a declaration of identity in the prescribed form.
- (2) The ballot paper marked by the absent voter and accompanied by the declaration of identity duly signed and authenticated shall, if it is received by the returning officer before the close of the poll, be counted by him and treated for all purposes in the same manner as a ballot paper placed in the ballot box in the ordinary manner.
- (3) During the continuance of the present War and a period of twelve months thereafter, for the purpose of allowing more time for the receipt of ballot papers from persons whose names are entered on the absent voters' list, His Majesty may by Order in Council direct that the counting of votes at any elections to which the Order applies shall, instead of
1899 taking place as soon as practicable after the close of the poll, take place at such time (not exceeding eight days after the close of the poll) as may be fixed by the Order, and returning officers shall comply with any such direction; and in any such case any vote received by the returning officer from an absent voter before the time at which the votes are to be counted shall be reckoned in the count. - (4) The following special provisions shall apply for the purpose of enabling persons whose names are entered on the absent voters' list to appoint voting proxies in certain cases:
- (a) His Majesty may by Order in Council direct that voting by proxy by persons registered as naval or military voters shall be permitted in any area on land abroad mentioned in the Order if it appears to him that ballot papers sent to that area by post cannot reasonably be returned before the votes are counted, and that the case cannot be met by an Order under this Section postponing the counting of votes:
- (b) A person whose name is entered on the absent voters list, if he satisfies the registration officer—
- (i.) that he is registered as a naval or military voter and is serving, or about to serve, afloat, or in any area on land abroad in which voting by proxy is permitted in pursuance of an Order in Council made under this Section; or
- (ii.) that he is a merchant seaman, pilot, or fisherman (including the master of a merchant ship or fishing boat and an apprentice on such a ship or boat) and that there is a likelihood that he will be at the time of a Parliamentary election at sea or about to go to sea;
- (c) No ballot paper shall be sent for the purpose of voting by post to a person who has appointed a proxy under this provision while the appointment is in force:
- (d) The provisions set out in the Third Schedule to this Act shall have effect with respect to voting by proxy.
§ Lords Amendments:
§ In Sub-section (1), after the word "election" ["at a Parliamentary election"], insert the words "(other than a university election)."—Agreed to.
§ In Sub-section (1), leave out the words "entered against his name on the absent voters' list in the register," and insert instead thereof the words "recorded by the registration officer."—Agreed to.
§ In Sub-section (2), leave out the words "close of the poll," and insert instead thereof the words "time at which the votes are to be counted."
§ Sir G. CAVEI beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
Perhaps I may say a word about this Amendment because it is a matter of substance. This Amendment is concerned with the Clause which relates to voting by absent voters. If lion. Members will look at Sub-section (2) they will see that the ballot paper marked by the absent voter, shall,
"if it is received by the returning officer before the close of the poll,"
be counted by him. The Amendment provides that if it is received before the time at which the votes are to be counted it shall be valid. Of course that is a difference. It gives the absent voter little more time to get in his vote. Under the Bill, without the Amendment, it must be received before the poll closes, but under the Bill as proposed to be amended it will be valid if received before the time the votes are counted. It would in some cases be the same evening and in other eases I suppose it would be the next morning. I should like to hear what hon. Members have to say upon this difference, and in the meantime I formally move to agree with the Amendment.
Mr. HEALYThis matter was discussed at some length, the House came to a formal decision on it, and we are now asked to reverse it. The objection to the Amendment is that it gives the returning officer the power to fix the time up to which the votes are to be counted. If there is any existing enactment saying that votes should not be counted within 1901 a certain time of the poll, there would be no objection to the Amendment, but in the Ballot Act there is no limit of time. The returning officer may count the same night or the next day or two days after. The Conservative agent goes to the returning officer and says, "I have a lot of voters who are all fishing. I want you to postpone the counting of the votes." The Radical agent says, "No; I object to postponement." The merit of the existing law is that there is no choice given to anyone. Here, then, is, we will say, a closely balanced election which a few votes may turn, and the one agent or the other may expect that a delay in the counting of the votes as between to-night and to-morrow will determine the election and all kinds of pressure will be put upon the returning officer by one agent or the other to put off the counting; and whatever decision the returning officer comes to, he will be charged with being a partisan. For these reasons the Committee decided that the proper limit to fix was the close of the poll. A vote that comes in before the close of the poll should be counted, but there should be a discretion vested in the returning officer, because that is what it amounts to, to fix up to what moment votes coming in should be counted. That would be a most dangerous change in our electoral practice, and I hope the House will not agree to it.
§ Mr. PETOI do net agree with the hon. and learned Gentleman m his recollection of what took place in Committee, or the very sinister interpretation he puts on this Amendment. It seems to me that he knows so much about election law that he sees all sorts of difficulties and dangers and possible intrigues which are not in the least likely really to happen in practice. The proposition is a perfectly simple one. We have an all too limited period for the recording of these absent votes. I believe as a rule only a period of eight days. We felt in the Conference that eight days was a very short time, but that, desirable as it was to enable the greatest possible opportunity for absent voters to record their votes, it was not desirable to protract elections beyond a reasonable period. Now the Lords have seen that here was an opportunity of giving in many cases an additional twelve hours for the post to come in and a certain additional percentage of absent voters to be able to record their votes without inconvenience and without any alteration 1902 of the period of the counting of the votes at all, but merely in the ordinary practice the votes would be counted in the morning, the returning officer would see toe morning post is in, and so many additional votes, and to that extent the election will be more perfect than it otherwise would be and a more complete representation of the electors. I do not believe the hon. and learned Member's fears are in the least well-founded, and there will be all these intrigues between one election agent or another or that the country would tolerate for a moment holding up the counting of the votes for two or three days in order that a particular fishing fleet may conic in, because there is supposed to be a majority of absent voters on board who have not already registered their votes and who their all-wise election agents know, or think they know, are going to give them some election advantage. I think we should hear a great deal about it if the counting of the votes was held over for two o three days for the return of a few fishing vessels. Nothing of the kind is in the least likely to happen. This Amendment is to enable an additional number—it may be only a few—of absent voters to register their votes, and for that reason I hope the Home Secretary's recommendation will be listened to, and that the House will agree with the Lords Amendment.
§ Mr. ROWLANDSThere is enough in this proposition to give the House pause before they seriously consider it. You are asked to make an entire change in the law of the Ballot Act in regard to the conditions under which the poll closes. I am not saying that this suggestion may not be a good one; but it certainly requires consideration before you heartily adopt it. It is all very well to say that you do not have or will not have sharp practices: but we have all in our minds cases where we know sharp practice was resorted to. If you have a returning officer who is at all inclined to sharp practices you are going to put a weapon in his hands which may be of very great use. I feel smile hesitation in letting this Amendment go without taking the sense of the House upon it. You are breaking through all the traditions in regard to the time at winch the poll closes, and you may find that great difficulties will arise as a. result of this Amendment.
Mr. T. WILSONI am sorry that the Home Secretary has moved to agree with this Amendment. I could quite understand an Amendment fixing a limit of, say, twelve or twenty-four hours, but this is quite indefinite. We ought to have the same law applied to electors, whether the counting takes place on the election day or the day after the election. I do hope that the House will disagree with the Lords Amendment, and if the Home Secretary will see his way to withdraw his Motion, I think the House will be unanimous in rejecting the Amendment.
Mr. H. SAMUELI agree that this is a matter which seems to require some further consideration. Hitherto the returning officers have been able to some extent to influence elections according to the choice that they made of the day for which the poll was to be fixed. That has been swept away by this Bill, and all elections are to be held on the same day. Now, however, with this provision, it will be within the option of a returning officer in certain cases to affect the result of an election by his decision as to the time and day at which the count is to be taken. if in the normal course the count is to be taken in the evening after the poll is closed there will be one result, and if the count is postponed until the following day, in order that votes may come in by post, another result will be secured. You therefore invest a political discretion in a non-political officer, and that seems to be a thing in itself objectionable. At the same time one wishes to give a reasonable opportunity to absent voters to poll. The House of Lords were, if I may say so, not very well advised by the representatives of the Government in that House as to the effect of this Amendment. Lord Peel moved to delete from. Subsection (2) the words "close of the poll," in order to insert the words "time at which the votes are counted," and he said
The object this Amendment is to bring this, provision into consonance with the provision at the end of Sub-section (3) so that the absent voters papers can be counted if they come in a after voters papers can be counted if they come in a after the close of the poll.There was no discussion and the Amendment was accepted. As a matter of fact, Sub-section (3) deals with an entirely different matter. It is the Sub-section which applies to the General Election that takes place during the War, or within twelve months thereafter, and allows an extension of eight days for the counting of the votes from all over the country, so 1904 that the soldiers' votes may have time to be sent home, and the postal vote to be taken over a larger area. It is necessary that these soldiers' votes should be counted if they come in within the eight days. That is different from Sub-section (2), which deals with ordinary elections under normal conditions. I suggest that it may be possible to subject this to further consideration and that would necessitate disagreeing with the Lords at this stage, so that the matter could be considered again in another place. It may be possible to insert a provision limiting the time within which the count is to be taken. If you inserted some provision stating that in certain circumstances the poll should be counted on the same day as the election, and in other circumstances on the day after—it may be rather difficult—and so limit the discretion of the returning officer, there would not be so much objection to this Amendment. If it is not found possible to limit the discretion of the returning officer, then I think it would be advisable on the whole to keep the Bill as it stood.
§ Colonel SANDERSSurely this is provided for in the next Sub-section.
§ Mr. HOLTI hope that the Home Secretary will disagree with this Amendment. I have had the experience of fighting a county constituency three times. I have always found the returning officer to be a party man and outside of the party opposed to my own party. Everyone knows perfectly well that in a county constituency the high sheriff is always a Conservative, and the discretion exercised by these gentlemen is invariably used to party advantage. For instance, on the occasion of my first election the proposal was made that the polling should take place on a Friday, but the returning officer would not have it as he and his friends were going horse-racing on that day. And that is the sort of thing that occurs whenever the returning officer has to exercise his discretion. Let us make it plain that he is not to have a discretion which can influence the election. Let him be only a judge whose duty it is to conduct the election. Then there will be no exercise of discretion on the side of the party to which the returning officer belongs.
§ Sir G. CAVEThe speech to which we have just. listened almost makes me disposed to insist on my Motion. The 1905 hon. Gentleman suggests that the high sheriffs throughout the country do not act impartially. I have had the pleasure of knowing many of them, and I should not think of making that charge. The only argument that affects me is one put forward by my right hon. Friend the Member for the Cleveland Division (Mr. Samuel) when he said that this would enable the returning officer to postpone the time for the purpose of preventing any voter corning in, and that would lay him open to the imputation of favouring one party or the other.
§ Sir G. CAVEYes, or he might refuse, and he would lay himself out to this imputation of unfairness, whereas lie had been actuated entirely by other reasons. I am quite willing to consider that matter very carefully, and I agree that the only way to do it is to disagree with the Lords Amendment and see whether in another place an Amendment. can be inserted to meet the point.
Mr. SAMUELPerhaps it might be possible to provide for the count to take place as soon as practicable after the close of the poll.
§ Sir G. CAVEOne does not know what might happen to delay the counting.
Motion, by leave, withdrawn.
Lords Amendment disagreed with.
Lords Amendments:
In Sub-section (3), leave out the words "and in any such case any vote received by the returning officer for an absent voter by the time at which the votes are to be counted shall be reckoned in the count."—Disagreed with.
In Sub-section (4, a), leave out the words persons registered as."—Agreed to.
In Sub-section (4, b), leave out the words registered as."—Agreed to.
In Sub-section (4, c), at the end, insert the words "or to any naval or military voter if the returning officer knows that he is serving in an area in which voting by proxy is permitted in pursuance of an Order in Council made under this Section."
Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."—[Sir G. Cave.]
§ Sir W. DICKINSONI want to ask a question about this, because I am not at all convinced of its wisdom. We came to the conclusion that no ballot paper should be sent for the purpose of voting by post to a person who had appointed a proxy under this provision while the appointment was in force. Now it is proposed to provide that no ballot paper is to be sent to any naval or military voter if the returning officer knows that he is serving in an area in which voting by proxy is permitted. The proposal we made was simple, that is to say, that a man who has sent in his proxy, his proxy being registered, is not to have a ballot paper. This is a very much more complicated proposition for the returning officer. He has got to discriminate between the people to whom he is going to send the ballot papers. I cannot help thinking that the Government have made this proposition merely on the suggestion of the Post Office. It would be very difficult to carry out. We have never yet said that a man who prefers not to use a proxy should not have the opportunity of voting by post if it could be managed, and we do not know yet what the areas are which His Majesty in Council will decide should be proxy areas. Supposing that they are areas comparatively near England, it is extremely unjust to say that nobody is to have a ballot paper at all unless he sends in a proxy. That would be putting a restriction upon the exercise of the vote by the soldier. I do not think that it ought to be left to the discretion of the returning officer to send or not to send a proxy.
§ Mr. PETOI am very glad that the right lion. Gentleman has raised this point, because it seems to me that the way in which the Bill left this House is, as regards this matter, the proper way to leave it. I do not think it fair to the returning officer to introduce this Amendment, as he may have to make inquiries or may have evidence put before him to make him think he knows that he ought not to send a ballot paper to a certain man because he is serving in a certain area. The information may be perfectly right when it is given, and afterwards may cease to be correct. We do not want a proxy vote where a personal vote could possibly be exercised, and therefore to place a restriction upon a returning officer sending a ballot paper to men because lie thinks that he knows that 1907 they are in certain areas is most undesirable, and I hope that the Home Secretary will reconsider the position with regard to this Amendment.
§ Sir G. CAVEThis is a somewhat difficult point, and I am sure that the House understands what really is the intention of the Amendment. The Bill provides that an area may be made a proxy area where His Majesty in Council is satisfied that ballot papers sent into that area by post cannot be returned before the votes are counted, and the case cannot be met by extending the time for counting the votes. In such a case it would be useless to send the papers to that area in order that the voter should vote by post, as no vote could be given. The intention of the Amendment is this The War Office have agreed to inform the registration officer confidentially of the men who are in a proxy area. Where men are abroad, and the proxies could not be effectively used, or could not be returned in time, it would be simply waste to send them to such an area, for they could have no result. The Amendment is a reasonable one, and really nothing is lost by it.
Question put, and agreed to.