HC Deb 01 February 1918 vol 101 cc1938-59

Lords Amendments further considered.

CLAUSE 38.—(Application to Scotland.)

This Act shall apply to Scotland, subject to the following modifications:

(1) Unless the context otherwise requires—

  1. (a) The word "borough" except as used in the expression "Parliamentary borough" means "burgh";
  2. (c) The expression "the Local Government Board" means the Secretary for Scotland;
  3. (d) The expression "Valuation Acts" means the Lands Valuation (Scotland) Act, 1854, and any Acts amending the same;

(3) The Section of this Act relating to local government franchise (men) shall not apply, and in lieu thereof—

  1. (a) a man who is of full age and not subject to any legal incapacity shall be entitled to be registered as a local government elector for a local government electoral area if he is on the last day of the qualifying period and has been during the whole of that period—
  2. (b)(i) the ownership or occupation in immediate succession of different lands and heritages, dwelling-houses, or lodgings, as the case may be, in the same Parliamentary county or in the same Parliamentary borough shall have the like effect in qualifying a man to be registered as a local government elector for a local government electoral area therein, respectively, as the continued ownership or occupation of the same lands and heritages, dwelling-houses, or lodgings within that area; and
  3. (c) In this Section "owner" has the same meaning as "proprietor" in the Valuation Acts, "lands and heritages" has the same meaning as in those Acts and "dwelling-house" means any house or part of a house occupied as a separate dwelling;

(4) Sub-section one of this Act relating to franchises (women) shall not apply,. and in lieu thereof—

  1. (a) a woman who is not subject to any legal incapacity shall be entitled to he registered as a Parliamentary elector for a constituency (other than a university constituency) if she has attained the age of thirty years, and if either she or her husband is on the last day of the qualifying period occupying jointly or severally as owner or tenant any land or premises in the constituency (hereinafter in this Sub-section called "the qualifying premises"), and has during the whole of the qualifying period so occupied' any land or premises in the county or county of a city in which the qualifying premises are situated:
  2. (b) A woman registered by virtue of this Section shall be deemed to be registered by virtue of her own or her husband's local government qualification;

(5) The Section of this Act relating to registration officers and areas shall not apply, and in lieu thereof—

Each burgh, the town council whereof was entitled under the law in force at the passing of this Act to appoint an assessor for the purpose of Parliamentary registration, and each county (exclusive of every such burgh), or, where any county is divided for the purpose of Parliamentary elections, each part of the county which lies within a separate Parliamentary division, shall be a registration area: and the assessor of the burgh or county under the Valuation Acts, or where there are two or more such assessors, one of them appointed for the purpose of Parliamentary registration by the town or county council, as the case may be, shall be the registration officer of that area, and all other assessors (if any) in that area shall, for the purpose of Parliamentary registration, he subject to the instructions of the registration officer and shall be bound to act on such instructions.

(7) In the application of the Section of this Act relating to right to the use of elementary schools the expression "any public elementary school in receipt of an annual Parliamentary grant" means "any school in receipt of a Parliamentary grant."

(9) The Sections of this Act relating to returning officers and to the discharge of returning officers' duties by an acting returning officer shall not apply, and in lieu thereof—

The returning officer at Parliamentary elections (other than a university election, shall as heretofore be the sheriff of the sheriffdom within which the constituency is wholly situated or, where the constituency is situated in more than one sheriffdom, the sheriff specified in the Sixth Schedule to this Act, and the power of appointing deputies conferred by Section 8 of the Ballot Act, 1872, on certain sheriffs shall be exercisable by any sheriff who is returning officer for more than one constituency, or who, by reason of sickness or unavoidable absence, is incapacitated from performing any of the duties devolving upon him as returning officer, and in the event of no such appointment being made by a sheriff so incapacitated or in the event of any vacancy in the office of sheriff at the time when any of such duties require to be performed, the sheriff substitute at the place at which the writ for the election is appointed to be received, shall act as returning officer, and shall perform all the duties and have all the powers (including the power of appointing deputies) of such returning officer.

(10) In the case of Parliamentary elections the place of election shall be a convenient room situated in such place as the Secretary for Scotland may by order from time to time determine.

(11) For the purposes of the Section of this Act relating to alteration of polling districts where necessary, the sheriff shall within his sheriffdom be deemed to be the local authority.

Lords Amendments:

In paragraph (1), leave out the words "(a) The word 'borough,' except as used in the expression 'Parliamentary borough,' means 'burgh'," and insert instead thereof the words

"(a) The expressions 'borough' and 'municipal borough' mean burgh

—Disagreed with.

In paragraph (1, c), after the word "Board" ["Local Government Board"], insert the words "except where otherwise expressly provided."—Agreed to.

After paragraph (1, d), insert the words,

"(e) The expression 'governing body' used in relation to a university means the University Court."

Agreed to—

In paragraph (3, a, ii.), leave out the words "(other than a dwelling-house)."

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

Sir W. DICKINSON

May I ask what is exactly the meaning of this Amendment?

The SECRETARY for SCOTLAND (Mr. Munro)

The point of this Amendment is this: it has been pointed out to me that, under the provisions of the Bill as they stand governing the local government franchise in Scotland, no right to be registered as an elector is conferred upon joint occupiers as tenants of dwelling-houses, even where the existing law permits of registration of such joint occupiers. This Amendment will bring back the provisions of the Bill more nearly to the existing local government law of Scotland. I undertook, so far as possible, that the local government franchise should be substantially preserved. Inadvertently it has been somewhat restricted in the Bill as it at present stands, and the purpose of this Amendment is to bring the franchise back into strict conformity with the law as it at present stands.

Sir W. DICKINSON

May I ask whether the omission of the words would not mean that the dwelling-house occupied must be of £10 value?

Mr. MUNRO

I think there is no difficulty about it.

Mr. GULLAND

Does not the Secretary for Scotland put this right in one of the later Amendments, which defines lands and heritages as being lands and heritages other than dwelling-houses?

Mr. WATT

If there is any doubt about this matter, perhaps my right hon. Friend might refuse to accept this Amendment of the other House until he has looked into this question. If this Amendment is accepted, is it beyond the power of the Secretary for Scotland to rectify the matter if my right hon. Friend is right? In the meantime, may I sugest that he should reject this Amendment, so as to leave the door open?

Mr. MUNRO

I am advised that there is no difficulty about the matter, and that the Amendment exactly gives effect to what my right hon. Friend desires.

Loris Amendment agreed to.

Lords Amendments:

In paragraph (3, b, i.), leave out the words "Parliamentary county or in the same Parliamentary borough," and insert instead thereof the words "county or in the same county of a city."—Disagreed with.

In paragraph (3, b), leave out the words "and (ii.) the occupation of a dwelling-house shall not be deemed to be interrupted by reason only of permission being given by letting or otherwise for the occupation thereof as a furnished house by some other person for a part of the qualifying period not exceeding four months in the whole."—Agreed to.

In (c), leave out the words "has the same meaning as 'proprietor ' in the Valuation Acts; 'land and heritages' has the same meaning as in those Acts," and insert instead thereof the words "('shall include heir of entail in possession, life-renter, and beneficiary entitled under any trust to the rents and profits of lands and heritages and shall not include the fiar of lands and heritages subject to a life-rent, nor tutor, curator, judicial factor, nor commissioner; "county" means a county inclusive of all burghs therein except county of a city'); "lands and heritages" has the same meaning as in the Valuation Acts.'"

Lords Amendment read a second time.

Amendment made in Lords Amendment: Leave out the words "'county' means a county inclusive of all burghs therein except a county of a city."

Lords Amendment, as amended, agreed to.

Lords Amendment:

In paragraph (4, a), leave out the words "is on the last day," and insert instead thereof the words "has during the last fourteen days."—Disagreed with.

Leave out the word "occupying" ["qualifying period occupying"], and insert instead thereof the word "occupied."—Disagreed with.

After paragraph (4, a, ii.), insert as a new paragraph,

"(iii) the expression 'land or premises' means any land or premises (other than a dwelling-house) of the yearly value of not less than five pounds or any dwelling-house."—Agreed to.

In paragraph (4, a), leave out subparagraphs (iii.), (iv.), and (v.).

Lords Amendment read a second time.

Amendment made in Lords Amendment: Leave out "(iii.)"—[This retains sub-paragraph (iii.) in the Bill.]

Lords Amendment, as amended, agreed to.

Lords Amendments:

In paragraph (4, a), after the word "dwelling" ["a separate dwelling"], insert as a new paragraph,

"(iv.) Where land or premises are in the joint occupation of two or more persons, each of the joint occupiers shall be treated as occupying the same, provided that not more than two joint occupiers shall be so treated in respect of the same land or premises, unless they are bonâ fide engaged as partners, carrying on their profession, trade, or business on the land or premises, and provided further that in the case of land or premises (other than a dwelling-house) the aggregate yearly value thereof must be not less than the amount produced by multiplying five pounds by the number of joint occupiers."—Agreed to.

At end of paragraph (4) insert new paragraph:

() Sub-section (1) of the Section of this Act relating to supplementary provisions as to residence and occupation shall not apply except in so far as that Sub-section relates to the Parliamentary franchise for men.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

Mr. WATT

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman to give the House some explanation of the meaning of this particular Section. I have inquired of experts in registration, and they are, they tell me, unable to understand what is meant by this particular Sub--section

Mr. MUNRO

This Amendment is consequential upon the new Clause 6 (a) which the House has adopted. The local government franchise for men and the Parliamentary franchise for women are regulated by the provisions of the Scottish application clause. It is necessary, therefore, to provide that Sub-section (1), of the new Clause 6 (a) shall apply to Scotland so far as it relates to the Parliamentary franchise for men only.

Lords Amendment agreed to.

Lords Amendment: After the Amendment last inserted, add as a new paragraph,

"() The section of this Act relating to provision as to disqualification shall have effect as if the following provision were enacted therein:

A person shall not be disqualified front being registered or from voting as a Parliamentary or local government elector by reason that he is the town clerk or depute town clerk of any burgh or the assessor under the Valuation Acts in any burgh or county."

Motion made, and Question proposed,. "That this House cloth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

Mr. GULLAND

This is an entirely new proposal, and I should really like to ask the Secretary for Scotland why it has been adopted? I can quite see, and agree with, the legitimate claim that has always been made by the town clerk that by reason of being town clerk he shall not be deprived of a vote at a Parliamentary election. I think that is quite right. But I should' like to hear from the Secretary for Scotland as to whether or not he is in favour of that official having a vote at a municipal election? If the town clerk is wrapped up in the work of the town council, and so intimately associated with the members in carrying out the work that they have to do, I am a little doubtful of the wisdom of allowing him to mix himself up in the hurly-burly of a town council election, and to take sides for or against the men with whom he will have to work in amicable relations. I have quite an open mind on the subject, but I think the matter requires some exposition on the part of the Secretary for Scotland before the House agrees with it.

Mr. MUNRO

This Amendment was inserted in another place at the instance of Lord Balfour of Burleigh, than whom, as my right hon. Friend knows, no one has a more intimate knowledge of municipal law in Scotland. The purpose was to remove the disqualification from voting which at the present time rests upon town clerks, deputy town clerks, and assessors. My view, if I may put it to my right hon. Friend, is that inasmuch as the policy of the Bill is to remove disqualifications, and inasmuch as the corresponding officials in England to those whom I have enumerated labour under no such disqualification—

Mr. M. HEALY

Or in Ireland!

Mr. MUNRO

—or in Ireland—I am obliged to my hon. and learned Friend for pointing that out—it seems anomalous and unnecessary that this special disqualification should still, without any valid reason, remain in Scotland. Under the circumstances, I think my right hon. Friend will agree that the policy followed is reasonable, and justified by the circumstances in the three countries.

Mr. GULLAND

I do not object. I am very glad for the explanation of my right hon. Friend.

Lords Amendment agreed to.

Lords Amendments:

After the Amendment last inserted, add as a new paragraph,

"() The Section of this Act relating to qualification for membership of local authority shall not apply."—Agreed to.

In paragraph (5), after the word "county" ["each part of the county"] insert the words "with the like exclusion."—Agreed to.

Leave out the words "Parliamentary registration" ["Parliamentary registra- tion be subject to the instructions"], and insert instead thereof the words "the registration of Parliamentary and local government electors."

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

Sir G. YOUNGER

There is no objection whatever to this, but I should like to take the opportunity of saying that I am extremely sorry that the proviso following has not been dealt with and the whole of our valuation at the present time put into the hands of the Treasury.

Lords Amendment agreed to.

Lords Amendments:

In paragraph (7), leave out the words "in receipt of art annual Parliamentary Grant."—Agreed to.

After paragraph (8), insert as a new paragraph,

"() In Sub-section (5) of the Section of this Act, relating to expenses of registration, the expression" the council whose clerk the registration officer is," means" the council appointing the registration officer."—Agreed to.

In paragraph (9), leave out the words "more than one sheriffdom, the sheriff specified in the Sixth Schedule to this Act," and insert instead thereof the words "two or more sheriffdoms, the sheriff of such one of those sheriffdoms as the Secretary for Scotland may appoint."—Disagreed with.

After paragraph (9), insert as a new paragraph,

"Notwithstanding the provisions of Sub-section (1) of the Section of this Act relating to polls to be held on one day at a General Election, the poll at any General or By-Election for the constituency of Orkney and Shetland shall remain open for two consecutive days as heretofore."

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

Mr. GULLAND

This does not indicate which of the two days is to be the day for the general day of polling?

Mr. MUNRO

The Amendment, as my right hon. Friend knows, is to ensure that in the case of a by-election, as well as the General Election, there shall be two days for the poll in the Orkneys and the Shetlands. I think my right hon. Friend is riot right in his suggestion.

Lords Amendment agreed to.

Lords Amendments:

After the Amendment last inserted, insert as a new paragraph,

"The provisions of the last paragraph of the Section of this Act relating to register for university constituencies shall not apply, and the said Section shall have effect as if Regulation sixteen of Section two of the Universities Elections Amendment (Scotland) Act, 1881, were enacted therein in lieu of the said paragraph."—Agreed to.

At the beginning of paragraph (10), insert the words "The Section of this Act relating to place of election shall not apply, and in lieu thereof," and after "elections" insert "(other than an election for a university constituency)."—Agreed to.

Leave out paragraph (11), and insert instead thereof the words,

"In the application of the Section of this Act relating to division of constituency into polling districts and provision of polling places, and of the Section of this Act relating to alteration of polling places where necessary, the returning officer shall be substituted for the council having a power or duty under those Sections to divide a constituency into polling districts, and the Lord Advocate shall be substituted for the Local Government Board."

Lords Amendment read a second time.

Mr. GULLAND

A good deal of work has to be done immediately on this fixing of polling places. What I wish to know is whether the returning officer is a continuing person, or does he merely begin his operations on the declaration of an election? I want to be quite sure that we have somebody taking action all the time.

Mr. MUNRO

My right hon. Friend knows that the sheriff is the returning officer, and I do not apprehend that. there will be any difficulty at all. We all know who is the returning officer.

Mr. GULLAND

I agree that we all know that the sheriff is the returning officer, but is he in office now or only when he receives a writ from Mr. Speaker. I want to be sure that he really is the person working on this job the whole time, and when the duty is placed upon him I want him to be there ready to take up this duty.

Sir GEORGE YOUNGER

I suggest that we should insert the word "sheriff" instead of "returning officer."

Mr. GULLAND

I should like some further assurance on this point. This is an important matter, and we are entitled to be quite sure that somebody is there to take up this duty. It will not do afterwards to be told that we have neglected this matter. Will the Secretary for Scotland accept the suggestion made by the hon. Baronet?

Mr. MUNRO

I am willing to meet my right hon. Friend and accept the suggestion which has been made, although I do not really think there is any necessity for it. If, however, my right hon. Friend opposite takes that view, I am quite willing to accept the insertion of the word "sheriff."

Sir G. YOUNGER

I beg to move, as an Amendment to the Lords Amendment, to leave out the words "returning officer," and to insert instead thereof the word "sheriff."

Amendment to the Lords Amendment agreed to.

Lords Amendment, as amended, agreed to.

Lords Amendment:

After the Amendment last added, insert,

"() Notwithstanding anything in this Act it shall not in the year nineteen hundred and nineteen and subsequent years be necessary—

  1. (a) as regards any burgh or any registration unit therein, if the town council of the burgh so resolve, to show or distinguish in any spring register the names of persons entitled to vote as local government electors; or
  2. (b) as regards any county or any registration unit therein, if the county council of the county so resolve, to show or distinguish in any register other than the autumn register in those years in which county council elections fall to be held the names of persons entitled to vote as local government electors:

Provided that—

  1. (i) a resolution under this Section shall not have effect unless it is passed as respects the spring register in any year before the first day of January in that year, and as respects the autumn register in any year before the first day of July in that year;
  2. (ii) for all the purposes of the registration of local government electors in any burgh or county, or registration unit therein to which any such resolution applies, the last preceding local government register shall remain in force until a new local government register comes into force.

In this Sub-section 'burgh' has the same meaning as in the Town Councils (Scotland) Act, 1900. and 'county' means a county exclusive of any such burgh."

Mr. MUNRO

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

This Amendment was moved in another place by Lord Balfour of Burleigh. It gives an option to a town council to make up or not to make up the spring register of local government electors, and also confers an option on county councils either to make up or not to make up the spring register and autumn register in the years in which there are no county council elections. I have had a number of representations made to me that there would be a great saving in the case of some boroughs if they are not required to make up the spring register, and it would also be a great saving if the county councils were not required to do the same thing in years when there are no elections. The parish council and school board elections will take place once in three years upon the autumn register. Under these circumstances, it seems to me that the proposal which was made by Lord Balfour of Burleigh is a reasonable one, and I propose to ask the House to agree with the Lords Amendment.

Mr. GULLAND

This is an Amendment which I am sure will delight the heart of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Cleveland (Mr. Herbert Samuel), because it carries out great economy in printing, and it is quite a proper Amend- ment if it ensures that there will always be a register for a particular election that may come on.

Mr. MUNRO

That is so.

Mr. GULLAND

Is the right, hon. Gentleman quite sure that if the Education Bills fail to pass that there will he a register for the school board elections in a. parish or a county? I am not quite sure in what year the general elections take place, because they have been changed so much that I am not quite sure exactly in what year a school board election would fall. I should like to be assured that if the school board election does come on it will not be held upon a register that may be two or three years old. There is one other point which I should like to be assured upon by the right hon. Gentleman, and it is that this arrangement would ensure a fresh register for the years in which a poll under the Scottish Temperance Act might take place. My recollection is that that. is the year in which the county council election falls, but I should like to be assured that in subsequent years on which a poll may be demanded under the Scottish Temperance Act there will be a fresh register.

Mr. M. HEALY

I hope the right hon. Gentleman in this matter will take his pattern from Scotland and adopt the proposal of Lord Balfour of Burleigh and apply it to Ireland. It may be necessary in the boroughs, but in our rural districts where county and district council elections cannot take place except every third year, it is a shocking waste of money that a local government register should be prepared every year. I do hope if anything is done in the improvement of local government that the right hon. Gentleman will take his pattern from what Lord Balfour of Burleigh has done.

The CHIEF SECRETARY for IRELAND (Mr. Duke)

My hon. Friend is mistaken if he thinks that the Noble Lord has followed the example of the Irish Office by omitting to a limited extent that which was done on the suggestion, I think, of the hon. Gentleman himself. The preparation of a spring register is thought to be unnecessary.

Mr. MORRELL

Is this in order on these Amendments?

Mr. SPEAKER

We are only discussing Scotland at this moment.

Mr. HEALY

In discussing Scotland, are we not entitled to say how good it is to follow the Scottish example in this matter?

Mr. SPEAKER

It would appear that Scotland has followed the Irish example in this case.

Mr. HEALY

I do not think the Chief Secretary appreciates the Amendment. It is quite true that in Ireland we have proposed that there should be no spring register, but if I understand the Scottish proposal it only makes necessary the preparation of a local government register when there is going to be a local government election. That is an additional improvement which I would gladly see applied to Ireland.

Mr. MUNRO

I desire to give my right hon. Friend (Mr. Gulland) complete assurance with regard to both the points that he has raised. With regard to the question of the school board register, if he will look at the second paragraph of the proviso on the Amendment Paper he will see

"for all the purposes of the registration of local government electors in any burgh or county, or registration unit therein to which any such resolution applies, the last preceding local government register shall remain in force until a new local government register comes into force."

1.0 P.M.

I am advised that there cannot be any lacuna between the appearance of the new register and the disappearance of the old one. This is largely a question of law, and I am advised that my right hon. Friend's fears are quite unfounded on that score. The point regarding the Scottish Temperance Act was brought under my notice some few weeks ago by a letter from Glasgow, and it was very carefully examined. A reply was sent., a copy of which I shall be pleased to supply to my right hon. Friend, in which reasons were fully stated why apprehensions on the score of interference with the Temperance Act by reason of this provision were shown to be entirely unfounded. My right hon. Friend may accept the most ample assurance on that subject.

Lords Amendment agreed to.

    cc1959-68
  1. CLAUSE 39. —(Application to Ireland.) 3,218 words