HC Deb 30 April 1918 vol 105 cc1481-91

Order for Second Reading read.

The PRESIDENT of the BOARD of AGRICULTURE (Mr. Prothero)

I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a second time."

This Bill, which stands in my name and that of the Secretary for Scotland and of the Secretary for Ireland, is a Bill to regulate the use of stallions travelling for hire, or exhibited in certain places, or markets, or shows, and after the appointed day to prohibit any stallion without a licence from so travelling or from so being exhibited. This country is famous all over the world for the excellence of its horse breeding. That reputation has been built up by the capital, skill, and energy of individual breeders, supported by the great Breeding Societies. These Societies, by refusing awards and premiums to any unsound hire, have done a great deal to educate the breeders in the commercial and other advantages of soundness. Though that has been done, a great deal remains to be done; there is great room for improvement, and there is, indeed, urgent need for improvement. The Army has recently, during the War, bought a number of light and heavy horses, and the reports of their remount officers disclose a very serious state of affairs. A letter from the War Office is quoted in the Report of the Committee appointed by the President of the Board of Agriculture to consider the supply of horses for military purposes. That Report was published in 1915, and I quote from the fifth page: The War Office wrote on the 13th December, 1914, as follows: 'Owing, however, to the inferiority of many of the sires, a, large number of these horses are of so poor a stamp as to be of no military value, and the Council regard it as of the utmost importance that steps should at once be taken to arrest the deterioration of the light draught horse stock in this country.' On the 9th July, 1915, a letter was received containing the following paragraph: 'Unhappily the experience of the recent mobilisation has proved that though this country produces many super-excellent, horses, the number of unsound and utterly worthless animals, which ought never to have been bred, it deplorably large.' A well-known expert, who has been for the last thirty years one of the most successful breeder of shire horses, expressed the opinion in public that at least 50 per cent. of the horses employed upon farms were unsound. If that state of things is thus revealed, it becomes very important and very urgent—indeed, it is of military and national importance—to endeavour to improve the breeding of horses, and the first and surest step towards so improving the soundness of our horses in this country is to eliminate the unsound stallion. A single stallion in a single season may get from fifty to sixty unsound foals, and the object of this Bill is to prohibit the unsound stallions from travelling the country for stud purposes, or from being exhibited in public or in markets for this purpose. This step has been taken already in many countries—in France, in Germany, in Austria, in some of our Dominions, in a great many of the Federated States of the United States—and if we are to maintain our horse-breeding supremacy, we must take similar action.

The subject is not a new one; it has been before the country now for many years. As long ago as 1873 a Select Committee expressed a pious opinion that compulsory registration of stallions was desirable. It has been again recommended by a Committee of Inquiry into Horse Breeding in 1896. Resolutions in favour of it have been passed in considerable numbers by the Advisory Committee on Horse Breeding of the Board, and in 1915 Lord Middleton's Committee, from which I have already quoted, strongly recommended the compulsory registration of stallions, which is the object of the present Bill. The first of their conclusions, the one which they put in the forefront of all, is that the Board of Agriculture and Fisheries should institute any legislation required for the purpose of compulsory annual registration by the Board of all stallions that travel for service or may be exhibited for stud purposes.

In 1911, when the Grant was made by the Development Commission for the improvement of horse breeding, the Board instituted a system of voluntary registration. Under that system pedigree stallions were registered after veterinary examination, and the commercial value of that register had been shown by the large number of voluntary entries which have been made. We have very nearly 1,900 entries already, and probably we have the majority of pedigree stallions entered in that voluntary register. What we want to do now is to make registration compulsory, and to extend it not only to pedigree stallions which travel for service, but to all travelling stallions, whether they are capable of being entered in any recognised stud book of the particular breeds or not. We wish to extend it to all, so that for the future, after the appointed day, no owner of a mare shall be publicly tempted to send his mare to a stallion which is paraded in the market town or is exhibited in public for purposes of the stud. No doubt if this matter is carried into law it will cause a very considerable loss of money and of income to the owners of the stallions which cannot get a licence. That is a matter in which, perhaps, the House may feel some sympathy, but, on the other hand, the nature of the business, the interests of the owner of the mare, and the national interests of the nation, ought to be considered.

When these horses are paraded in any country market town, for every horse which has the Government licence and certificate of soundness there is probably paraded another horse which has no recommendation at all except the lowness of the fee at which it serves. It is these blackleg stallions, so to speak, which are doing irreparable mischief to the horse breeding of the country. After all, these horses which have not got the certificate are brought before the public, their attractiveness is carefully heightened by grooming, so as to catch the eye, and their fees are lowered as much as possible to tempt the pocket. The owner of the stallion knows that the article he offers is not to be compared with the article that is offered by the certificated, licensed, sound sire, and yet he exhibits his animal, he travels it, and he brings it to the farmhouse for the purposes of the stud. The owner of the mare does not know that the animal is unsound, and both he and the nation suffer by the unsound progeny that is begotten. So strong is the feeling that something ought to be done on the lines of this Bill, that we have had support from many of the principal breeding societies of the country, the measure is supported by the Royal Agricultural Society of England, it is supported by the National Farmers' Union, we have had resolutions from many of the county horse-breeding associations, and, so far as I can understand, there is not one of those associations which is not in favour of this principle of compulsory registration of stallions, while the "Live Stock Journal," which is the best-known organ of the livestock industry of this country, did not overstate the truth when it said that the principles of this Bill have received unanimous support from all our light and heavy horse breeding societies.

I may point out that we do not altogether do away with the unsound stallion. The Bill is designed to prevent the public temptation offered by it being travelled for service, to do away with the convenience of the animal coming to the door of the farmhouse, and to do away with what I may call public invitation. If the unsound stallion continues to serve, it can only do so on the premises of the owner, and the owner of the mare has to take the trouble and go to the expense of sending his mare to that stallion, and if he is prepared to do that, the Bill leaves him to back his own judgment and to take the risk. The Clauses of the Bill carry out, as I think, the objects quite clearly. The first Section provides: Any person who after the appointed day, being the owner or having the control of a stallion of a prescribed age, travels it for service, or exhibits it at any market or show or in any public place or permits it to be so travelled or exhibited, shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £20 unless the stallion is at the time licensed under this Act. The Section does not in Great Britain prohibit the use of unlicensed stallions for stud purposes altogether, but it makes it an offence to travel it for service or to publicly exhibit it. The Bill applies to Scotland and also to Ireland, but the Irish Department of Agriculture and Technical Instruction have a different Clause, which is to be found at the end of the Bill. England and Scotland are combined in the Bill, as I have indicated to the House.

The Bill goes on to provide that every stallion is entitled to be licensed on payment of a fee not exceeding one guinea, unless (a) it is affected with any contagious or infectious disease, or (b) is affected with any other disease or defect prescribed by the Board, and what we intend to do is to put into our Regulations the diseases which are specified in the Regulations of the Board under the present voluntary system. Other provisos are (c) if it has proved to be inadequately prolific, or is calculated, if used for stud purposes, to injure the breed of horses. In other words, we mean by paragraph (a) that if the defect is of a temporary character we can suspend the licence. For instance, if it is a temporary disease like glanders, of course the licence is not granted, but is held over. If the defects are of a hereditary nature, as in paragraph (b), then the licence is prima facie not granted. But if the defect is one of malformation, then again the stallion cannot be licensed. Clause 3 deals with the subjects of duration, transfers, and renewals of licences, and Clause 4 provides for appeal. Now in this case of appeal we intend to move some modification. As the appeal is given in the Bill the decision of a professional referee is final. It is rather flattering to the Board to find that the Horse Breeding Societies have a greater confidence in the decision of the Board, and the form of the appeal therefore will be that the veterinary referee will report to the Board, and the decision will rest with the Board. There are certain obvious advantages to anybody interested in horse breeding in putting it in that form, and we propose to adopt that form of appeal. Clauses 5 to 9 contain a variety of provisions to secure the proper administration of the Bill, and Clause 10 deals with stallions on commons and in the New Forest. Under the Commons Act the commoner is entitled to frame his own regulations and his own bye-laws. We do not interfere with that, but, if he is willing to accept the licensing provision of this Bill, then in such case the present Bill will come into force on the common.

Clause 11 deals with the expenses of administering the Bill so far as they are not met. The charge on the Treasury will, I think, be extremely small, and it is subject, of course, to the approval of the Treasury. The twelfth Clause is merely an interpretation Clause, and the thirteenth deals with the application to Scotland. The fourteenth is the Irish Clause, and when the Bill comes to be discussed—I hope the House will grant the Second Reading—that side of the measure will be explained by the Irish Secretary or some representative on his behalf. Of course, the Bill may, in the opinion of the House, require amending. I am sure I shall be prepared to consider all the Amendments most impartially, but I hope that the national importance and urgency of this measure, which we must bring into force as soon as we can, after giving a reasonable notice to the owners of the stallions, justify me in asking the House to give a Second Reading to the Bill.

Sir J. SPEAR

I cordially support the Second Reading of the Bill. I think we are indebted to the right hon. Gentleman for bringing it before the House, and I believe if carried it will do something—much, I hope—to stamp out hereditary disease among horses. It is extremely disappointing to a farmer to breed a colt, keep it for two or three years perhaps, find then discover that it is unsound, and have to dispose of it at a very heavy loss. Therefore, I think he is entitled to the protection provided by this Bill. It has been shown clearly that far too large a percentage of horses that are bought for the Army develop hereditary disease, and in the interests of the nation it is surely of great importance that steps, such as are proposed by this Bill, should be tried to do away with this great loss and risk. I note—and the right hon. Gentleman has emphasised the fact, that there is a right of appeal to the owner of a condemned horse. I am glad it is made very simple, and, I think, effective. We know that veterinary surgeons, able though they may be, differ as to whether a horse is sound or not. It is a very serious thing to a man who has a horse that he believes to be sound to find it condemned, and therefore this Bill is, I think, only just and very desirable indeed.

I would have been glad if the right hon. Gentleman could have gone a step further, and provided that no stallion should be used for hire that could not produce a certificate of soundness. In Clause 14 that proviso will prevail in Ireland. I do not see why it should not also prevail in this country. The Clause is applied to Ireland, and a man may use an unsound stallion to his own mares: he cannot use it for hire. The Bill will apply only to stallions that are exhibited, and, therefore, exhibited in the markets and fairs for the purpose of attracting notice, and securing custom. I am afraid the provisions of this Bill may appeal to owners of uncertificated horses who may charge a somewhat higher fee. There is a danger of that driving foolish parties to use horses that have never travelled but have been kept at home on a farm at a very much lower fee. I think it is due to the owners of certificates that they should be preserved from this nondescript opposition. Still, I understand there is great opposition in this country to extending the Bill to deal with all stallions use for hire whether travelled, or exhibited, or not; and rather than lose the Bill, so valuable do I think it, and so much do I think it will contribute to the stamping out of hereditary disease, that I accept the Bill even with Clause 14. If the right hon. Gentleman can see his way to apply the principles of the Bill to all stallions used for hire or payment, whether travelled or at home, I believe he would greatly increase the advantages which would accrue from the Bill. It would be a calamity to lose the Bill, and if the right hon. Gentleman can include what I refer to in the English Section, that no stallions shall be used for hire the owner of which cannot produce a certificate of soundness, I think he would be greatly extending the beneficial effect of the Bill. I cordially support the Second Reading.

Major DAVIES

I follow the hon. Gentleman who has just sat down in congratulating the President of the Board of Agriculture in having brought this Bill before the House. I sincerely trust that he will get an easy passage for it through the House. As he has told us in his speech this measure is really very much overdue. Its principles are already in operation in many countries. It is at this very late period that at last the Board of Agriculture—I do not wish to associate the right hon. Gentleman with this comment—have been able to bring this measure before Parliament and to endeavour to get these provisions passed into law. It is a very favourable time for putting this measure into operation. There is a shortage of food all over the country. Therefore it will not be so difficult to persuade the owners of unsound stallions to get rid of them. I think the Board are wise in bringing the Bill in at this particular time. The right hon. Gentleman, in the course of his speech, said something about the Report of the Committee on the question of providing horses for military purposes. I should like to take this opportunity of calling his attention to the fact that at the present moment the farmers and people in this country who produce light horses do so at great loss to themselves. The War Office only pay the price fixed before war began. As we all know, prices for commodities have gone up by leaps and bounds, and the result is that the cost of the production of horses is something like 50 per cent. more than it was, and in some cases almost 100 per cent. more than four years ago. It is only right that the Government, having fixed a maximum price for agricultural and other products, based upon the cost of production, in respect of other matters should apply the same principle to those people producing light horses for the use of the Army. I sincerely hope the right hon. Gentleman will bring this matter to the attenion of his Noble Friend the Secretary for War, so as to induce the War Office, in their own interests, and in the interest of the production of horses for military purposes, to reconsider this matter, and I trust he will succeed in persuading them to give a price that covers the cost of production and a reasonable profit to those concerned. After all, before the War farmers were told that it was a patriotic work to provide horses for military purposes. They have often continued breeding since the War on that account, although they might have turned their attention to other and more profitable agricultural work. They have done so simply because it was in the interest of the State, and because they were told that by so doing they were helping on the War.

I should also like to call the attention of the right hon. Gentleman to another fact. Certain societies, amongst them, I think, the Hunters' Improvement Society and the Association for Light Horses—with which I happen to be associated—are particularly anxious that we should insert some provision in the Bill to the effect that after these stallions have been examined for a certain number of years that they should be exempt from any further examination. After all, the object of the right hon. Gentleman is to prevent the spread of hereditary disease. He will accomplish that object, I think, if he follows the suggestion made, although, of course, he will have his own veterinary experts to advise him. I understand, however, that there is a consensus of opinion amongst the big societies that his object will be achieved if he limits the examination to six or nine years, following which exemption should take place. I should like to join with my hon. Friend opposite who urged that Clause 1 should be made more stringent. Apparently there are people who in different parts of the country find that it does not pay to keep these animals at home unless also they are allowed to travel. However these considerations may be, I certainly support the idea of making the Bill more stringent in the direction indicated, and laying down the law that this rule shall apply impartially all round—to the horses which are stationary and, at any rate, to all horses in respect to which a fee is being charged. I hope the right hon. Gentleman will not be content with this Bill, but bring in more Bills on similar lines which will refer to other categories of stock. The whole question of breeding stock and the elimination of unsound stores is one which the Board ought to press forward. If at the end of this War the agriculturists of this country are going to maintain their place and their supremacy so far as breeds are concerned, they will have to adopt measures of this kind. I desire, in conclusion, to express, on behalf of my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Bridgewater (Major Lane-Fox) his gratitude to the right hon. Gentleman for having introduced this Bill, and we hope it may have a speedy passage through all its stages.

Mr. ARCHDALE

I wish to offer my congratulations to the right hon. Gentleman for this Bill, and I am sure every horse breeder in Ireland will be grateful to him for having brought it in. I am connected with the Royal Dublin Society, the largest to do with horse breeding, I suppose, in the world, and for many years we have tried to get a Bill of this kind brought forward. Almost every agricultural society in Ireland has been urging that a measure of this kind should be introduced. I think the conditions for Ireland in this Bill are what they should be. I certainly support the hon. Member for Tavistock (Sir R. Spear) in thinking that it will be a good thing for England if the conditions are made the same as in Ireland in regard to not allowing unsound stallions to serve at all. I also support the right hon. Gentleman who has just sat down in regard to certificates after a certain number of years, because an old stallion is bound to go astray after twelve years' service. After seven or eight years continuous sound certificates a stallion should not be examined again. It is very hard on an old horse to be examined, and you may put away a most valuable horse if that proviso is not put in I thank the right hon. Gentleman on behalf of Irish horse breeders for bringing in such a useful Bill.

9.0 P.M.

Major BRASSEY

I should like to utter a word of dissent in regard to what has fallen from the three speakers who have addressed the House. I am not at all hostile to the Bill; in fact, I welcome it, but when hon. Members asked the President of the Board of Agriculture to go further and to apply the provisions to all stallions who serve for a fee, he will be doing a great deal of harm to the very important industry of thoroughbred horse breeding. I think all hon. Members acquainted with this subject will agree that veterinary opinion differs very widely on this subject. I think I may safely say that many of the greatest thoroughbred horses which have won important races in the past have probably been sired by horses that might not have passed some of the tests which so he veterinary surgeon would wish them to pass. Many thoroughbred horses have won good races on the turf and stood the test of training for many years, and I think it would be extremely unfair to those horses and their owners that they should be liable to be rejected for stud purposes by some of the smaller defects which are looked upon by many veterinary surgeons as being of an hereditary character. The hon. Member who last addressed the House spoke of testing stallions for wind. I think hon. Members will agree that to test stallions for wind is almost an impossibility, let alone the fact that, in the opinion of many experts, the wind infirmity is certainly not always hereditary. I only wish to express my dissent from what has fallen from the last three speakers on this point, and I urge the President of the Board of Agriculture to turn a deaf ear to their request to apply the provisions of this Act to all stallions. I think the Clause in the Irish Bill, as I read it, which excludes from the operation of this measure thoroughbred stallions who serve none but thoroughbred mares would be a very fair provision, and it would cover my objection to what has fallen from hon. Members who have addressed the House. I think there ought to be some protection for horses of great value which have stood the test of many years' training for racing, and whose defects are probably well known to breeders of thoroughbred stock. They should certainly be allowed to serve for hire without passing the test which is very rightly put on horses which travel and are exhibited for service.