§ 8. Mr. KINGasked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether, by King's Regulations 505, XIII., the discharge from the 1462 Army with ignominy is advised in the case of persistent offenders; whether soldiers who persistently disobey military orders can be treated under this Regulation; and whether the Army Council has considered whether conscientious objectors to military service should be, after repeated convictions, discharged with ignominy?
§ Mr. MACPHERSONI am afraid that my hon. Friend's reference to paragraph 505 of the King's Regulations has been made in error, as I find that that Regulation deals with the admission of soldiers into hospitals. Possibly paragraph 392 (13) was intended, and, if so, I would remind him that this paragraph merely governs the method under which the discharge of a soldier is carried out, who has been sentenced to be discharged with ignominy by a court-martial. My hon. Friend is doubtless aware that it is not within the power of the Army Council to direct a Court of Law to pass any particular sentence, and therefore the remainder of the question does not arise.
§ Mr. MORRELLWould it be open to a court-martial to order these men's discharges?
§ Mr. MACPHERSONNo
§ 18. Mr. KINGasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many cases of insanity have occurred during the past two years of conscientious objectors in Wormwood Scrubs and all other prisons, in Dartmoor work centre, in Wakefield work centre, and all other work centres, respectively; whether the percentage of insanity in the cases of conscientious objectors in prisons and work centres compares advantageously or otherwise with cases of insanity in the other prison population and the male population of the country between twenty and forty years of age; and whether the friends of insane prisoners are allowed to visit them, to complain to the Lunacy Commissioners, or under proper conditions to remove them for care and treatment elsewhere?
§ The SECRETARY of STATE for the HOME DEPARTMENT (Sir George Cave)The numbers of persons claiming to be conscientious objectors who have been certified insane are:
In all cases there was reason to believe that the insanity was due to conditions 1463 existing before their imprisonment. The ratio of these cases to the number of conscientious objectors under detention is, as to prisons 1.6, and as to work centres,.6 per 1,000, as against a general average for male prisoners from twenty-one to forty of 3.2, and for the male population of England and Wales between twenty and forty-four, of.8 per 1,000. As regards the last part of the question, a prisoner who is certified insane is removed as soon as possible to an asylum and his friends are informed. He does not come under the jurisdiction of the Lunacy Commissioners until he is received in the asylum. There have been cases where the sentence of an insane prisoner has been remitted, and he has been handed over to the care of his friends, but this is necessarily exceptional.
In Prison … … … 13 In Work Centres … … … 3
§ Mr. WHITEHOUSEDid I understand the right hon. Gentleman to say that these persons came under the care of the Lunacy Commissioners as soon as they were removed to an asylum?
§ Sir G. CAVEYes, Sir.
§ 19. Mr. KINGasked the Home Secretary whether William Joseph Chamberlain, of Birmingham, a conscientious objector, at present serving his third term of imprisonment, is in the Winchester Prison hospital in a serious state of health; whether inquiries can be made with a view to giving this man his discharge, he having been in prison since 4th January, 1917; how many prisoners were in Winchester Prison and how many in the prison hospital there on 1st March, 1916, 1917, and 1918, respectively; and whether he will inquire of the governor and medical officer of this prison, whose humanity is recognised by prisoners and their friends, as to what changes in dietary and conditions should be introduced?
§ Sir G. CAVEThis prisoner was released on medical grounds from Winchester Prison on the 1st of this month. The numbers asked for were as follows: 1st March, 1916: In prison, 137; in hospital, 9. 1st March, 1917: In prison, 175; in hospital, 11. 1st March, 1918: In prison, 231; in hospital, 10. I have no reason to think that any changes in dietary and conditions are called for.
§ 20. Mr. KINGasked the Home Secretary whether Bertram French, a conscientious 1464 objector, formerly at Knutsford work centre, is at present in hospital at Macclesfield through attempted suicide, and a previous attempt at suicide was hushed up; whether he was driven to this action by the conditions and treatment at the work centre; whether inquiries have been or will be made; whether he is aware that medical authorities, including prison doctors, state that the reduced prison rations so lower the nerve-strength of prisoners that they are more likely to break down, and that the increased numbers of prisoners in hospital confirm this view; whether it is intended to reconsider the dietary allowed to all prisoners and workers in work centres and other institutions; and what action he intends to take?
§ Sir G. CAVEFrench is in the county asylum at Macclesfield, having been removed there after his first attempt at suicide, which occurred during his temporary absence from the work centre. Upon the recommendation of the medical officer he had been excused work at the centre and had been allowed to go out as he pleased during working hours. He has attempted suicide again while in the asylum; nothing is known of any other attempt. There is nothing in the facts of the case to justify the suggestion that he was driven to his action by the conditions and treatment at the work centre.
The dietaries of the work centres have been carefully settled with medical advice, and the medical officers have power to allow increases in individual cases where they think it necessary. The question of the prison dietaries hardly arises, as French was in prison for three weeks only, and as long ago as in 1916.
§ 21. Mr. BYRNEasked the Home Secretary if he is aware of the death of Paul Leo Gillan, an Irish conscientious objector in Winchester Prison, which is alleged to have been caused by the punishment which he received in Plymouth; and will he cause an inquiry to be made and state whether the Government sanction treatment such as that which brought about this man's death?
§ Sir G. CAVEA careful inquiry was made by a coroner's jury into the cause of this man's death, and the jury found that the death was due to heart failure following on pleurisy, and that he had been in every way properly treated by the prison authorities. I know of no reason for any further inquiry.
§ Mr. BYRNEDid the right hon. Gentleman make an inquiry into the treatment which the man received while he was in Plymouth—treatment which undoubtedly hastened his death?
§ Sir G. CAVECertainly, Sir; and that very point was gone into by the coroner.