HC Deb 28 November 1917 vol 99 cc2057-60

The provisions of the Army Act mentioned in the first column of the following table shall be modified or excepted as

Section of Army Act. Modification or Exception.
32 "air or military" shall be inserted before "forces" wherever that word occurs.
175 The following Sub-section shall be inserted after Sub-section (1):—
"(1 A) Any officer of the naval or military forces of the Crown who is attached, or lent to, or seconded for service with the air force, subject, however, to the modifications contained in this Act, and with this exception, that if the members of the body of the air force with which any naval officer is serving are themselves subject to the Naval Discipline Act he shall remain subject to that Act."
184 A The following Sub-section shall be inserted after Sub-section 1):—
"(1 A) Where an officer or non-commissioned officer of the Army is a member of a body of His Majesty's military forces acting with any body of His Majesty's Air Force under such conditions as may be prescribed by regulations made by the Army Council and Air Council, then for the purposes of command and discipline, and for the purposes of the provisions of this Act relating to superior officers he shall, in relation to such body of His Majesty's Air Force as aforesaid, be treated and have all such powers (other than powers of punishment) as if he were an Air Force officer or non-commissioned officer, as the case may be."

The Amendment is permissive, and gives power to apply military law, with the assent of the Air Council and the Army Council, to airmen, or to apply the Air Force law, with the assent of the Air Council and the Army Council, to soldiers.

Mr. BILLING

Can the hon. Gentleman say what is the position in regard to the airmen who are lent to the Navy, do they come under naval law?

Major BAIRD

That is set forth in the Bill. Like everybody else serving on board His Majesty's ships, they come under naval discipline.

Lords Amendment agreed to.

terms set forth in the second column of the following table for the terms set forth in first column of that Schedule wherever those terms occur in the Army Act.

provided in the second column of that table, and new Sections shall be inserted as provided in that table.

Lords Amendments: In Part I., leave out the words "or His Majesty's Regular Forces."

In Part II., in paragraph on Section 32 of the Army Act, leave out the words" before 'forces' wherever the word occurs," and insert instead thereof the words "after 'His Majesty's' wherever those words occur."

In paragraph on Section 175 of the Army Act, after the word "Act" ["subject to that Act"], insert the words "In Subsection (2) 'any of' shall be omitted."

Agreed to.

In paragraph on Section 84 of the, Army Act, after the word "be" ["as the case may be"], insert the words, Provided that under Regulations made by Air Council and Army Council the officers and soldiers of a body of His Majesty's military forces acting with any body of the Air Force on active service, or any of such officers or soldiers, may, in such manner and in such circumstances and subject to such conditions as may be provided by or under those Regulations, be made subject to this Act, and in such case they shall be subject thereto in like manner as if they were officers and soldiers attached to the Air Force.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

General Sir IVOR PHILIPPS

I think we need some explanation as to whether this Regulation will be laid upon the Table of this House before coming into force. Here we are placing 5,000,000 officers and men under the command of an entirely new force. I have no doubt that in time the Air Force will be a properly organised and disciplined force, but at the present time there is no security for that, and it is a very bold and drastic step to take in military discipline to place the lives and liberties of 5,000,000 officers and men in this more or less casual way under an entirely new force. I think there should be some protection for the officers and men, who may know nothing of these Regulations, and I should like to know whether it is proposed to lay the Regulations on the Table before they come into operation.

Major BAIRD

I think the fears of the hon. and gallant Gentleman are scarcely justified. The protection of officers either of the Army or of the Air Force can, I think, safely be left in the hands of the Army Council or the Air Council. It is only subject to the consent of these two bodies that any arrangements can be made, and I think we may leave it in the hands of these bodies to take only such steps as are necessary for an efficient and proper organisation. As the right hon. and gallant Member must be aware, the two Acts are almost identical, the Army Act and the Air Force Act only differing in the sense that the Air Force Act contains provisions necessary to make the Army Act applicable to the Air Force. Therefore, I do not think there need be any alarm that any injustice will be done to officers or men of the Army who come under the jurisdiction of the Air Force.

Lords Amendment agreed to.