NEW CLAUSE. —(Air council not to Order or conduct Warlike Operations.) (Hansard, 14 November 1917)

§ Colonel GRETTON
I beg to move, " That the Clause be read a second time."
This Clause, and the one following that I have on the Paper, are different parts of the same large and wide subject. Hitherto the Air Board has been a Board of Supply. This Bill is drawn in such a way that it is by no means clear that the new Air Ministry is intended to be limited to supplies. There is to be a Secretaryship of State set up with a complete Council, and there is nothing in the Bill, as it is drawn, to prevent this Department being set up as a separate War Department, conducting operations of war independently, it may be, of either the Army or the Navy. If that is intended by the Government it is quite clear that some explanation should be given. It is an entire innovation to set up an Air Department as a separate Department. Hitherto all the Air Service weapons of war have been placed either at the disposal of the Army or the Navy. I put down my two new Clauses in order to raise this very important and wide question. The Government, and the Committee, will, I think, agree that divided command in war is fatal to success. Constantly the difficulty has been to combine the operations, naval and military, when that has been necessary. The long experience of centuries, the long experience of partial failures and sometimes disasters have revealed the general principles upon which amphibious operations should always be conducted. That is very much better understood than it was some centuries ago, but there are still difficulties, and a divided command always weakens. If the Air Ministry is intended to have it own leaders and to be under the command of its own officers, subject to the 534 general direction of strategical operations,. if we are going to have a new division in. future, instead of talking of the Army and Navy we shall talk about the Army, Navy and Air Service. It is by no means clear what the operations of the Air Service are, or what, in fact, is being handed over to the new Air Board. We gather that aeroplanes and all the necessary administration and repairs of those aeroplanes are to be handed over to the new Air Board. It is not clear whether dirigible balloons, or any developments of that kind, are going to be handed over to the Air Board. It is not at all clear whether anti-aircraft defences, whether stationary or movable, are to be under the Air Board. Surely if you are defending or attacking it is necessary that all the means of defence should be under the general direction of one man and one control. Nothing could be worse in war than divided control. It is very necessary that this matter should be cleared up.
I draw attention to another aspect of the Bill as it stands. There is nothing to prevent —and certain expressions used on behalf of the Government to-day lead us to expect it is intended —that an Air Force shall be employed from time to time at the direction of The civilian Government —this Air Council —independently of either Army or Navy control. Apparently, from one phrase that has been used tonight, there is nothing in the Bill to prevent the Air Council doling out to the Army and the Navy machines and men, and causing the Air Service to be equipped as it thinks fit. The new Air Council can reserve in its own hands portions of that force to use as it may think fit, independently of the Army Council or the Board of Admiralty, for some purpose of war which may be determined upon by the Government of the day, and which it may order the Air Council to carry out. I can conceive occasions when there may be public pressure in certain districts of this country, newspaper agitation of great violence, and public alarm. The Government, in order to protect itself against possible outcry, or even overthrow, having in its hands a large force of aeroplanes, may use them by way of reprisal, apart from naval or military exigencies of the case, and perhaps starve the operations of the Army or the Navy of what it urgently requires in order adequately to conduct its services to unecountry.
535 I do not want to press this thing unduly, but we are on very critical and dangerous ground these matters. If the Air Service is to hand over to the Army such aeroplanes and equipment as it may require, what is to be the relation of the officers of the Air Service to the officers commanding the force under the control of the Army Council? Are they to be in all respects under the control of the supreme command of the Army operating in that particular area of the War? Are they to be still subject to the Air Council in London, independent, or partly independent, of the command in that area of the War? There is no doubt whatever that the Air Service will take an increasingly important part in naval affairs. We all know that aeroplanes are useful in searching shallow waters for mine-fields and submarines. What is intended to be the relation between the Air Service and the officer commanding the naval force in that particular area?
These matters require definition and clearing up. I have no doubt that the Army Council and Board of Admiralty have come to some arrangement. There is great public excitement about this matter. I am not decrying the necessity for a vast expansion of the Air Service, for it may become the most vital service for the purposes of the War that the nation possesses. I think that is very likely to be the case.
What we have to deal with is the finishing of the present War in which the Air Service is increasingly important, but is still auxiliary to the operations by sea or land and our naval or military forces. The principles of war have proved to be immutable all through the centuries, and there is one principle which has always been maintained, and that is, that the whole of the apparatus of war must be directed to one unty of command. I think I have shown some justification for putting down these new Clauses. They are moved in no sense of hostility. No doubt the Government have considered my proposals, and if they are not accepted I hope we shall have a complete answer to them. I can assure those on the Treasury Bench that these matters have created great uneasiness in many places outside this House, and have caused some perturbation in the minds of those whose opinions are well worthy of consideration.

§ Mr. BILLING
I should like to oppose this new Clause, and it seems to me to be practically a negative. We are going to all this trouble to introduce a Bill for the purpose of doing a definite thing, and the hon. and gallant Member is proposing what seems to me to be a negative to the whole Bill. One thing that is essential is to have one supreme command outside the Army and Navy. There is one point which I have persistently made in this House and it is the necessity of getting this one control, and in creating this great Air Service not to trespass on the essential section of aviation which has directly to do with the Navy and the Army.
The hon. and gallant Member (Colonel Gretton) has asked what will be the position of an officer who has been lent to the Navy. I think it is a most unfortunate thing that there is going to be any lending of Air Service officers to the Navy. Certain officers ought to be retained for the direct service of the Fleet as well as certain machines, and I should like an assurance that they have not in contemplation the taking away from the naval command all that aeronautical apparatus upon which the very existence of the Grand Fleet depends. It would be terrible if it were in the power of a Minister of State with absolutely no knowledge of the sea or the Navy —and it seems likely that the appointment is likely to fall upon one who has no such knowledge —should be in a position to withdraw or recall from the Grand Fleet aeronautical impediments upon which the Navy depends. He may do it in ignorance. He certainly would not do it for any other reason. He may even give orders that such and such machine shall be brought back, or that so many parent ships for aeroplanes shall come back into port for relays of aeroplanes or machines. If such an order were given, presumably it would have to be carried out, and if it were carried out without a full appreciation or knowledge of the actual conditions under which the Fleet was operating, anything might happen.
I hope at least to have an assurance that it is not the intention of the Government in any way to interfere with the aeronautical developments of the Grand Fleet. That is a thing absolutely distinct, and on its own. There are functions for aeroplanes with the Army, such as spotting of artillery, general observation, and short bomb-dropping work, which make it an open question whether the Army should 537 directly control the movements of these machines; but as to the Navy, there should be no doubt at all. I hope we shall be assured that it is the intention of the Government to set up, not merely an Air Minister, but a Director of Air Offence, as well as a Director of Air Defence, and that the whole of the defences of this country will be in the hands of one man, not that it shall be the duty of the Navy to attend to the invader three miles out from the shore, to be handed over to the Army when he crosses the shore, and to the Volunteer anti-aircraft men when he approaches the town. What the country wants, and what the men in the Service want, is a clear-cut statement that the whole of the defences of this country shall be in the hands of a member of the Air Council under the direct instructions of the Air Ministry, and that the whole of the offensive operations and strategy of this AirFleet shall be under the supreme direction of one man, who shall be responsible to the War Cabinet, and report to it to obtain direction to carry out any raid or offensive action which he may consider advisable, neither the Army nor the Navy, except in a consultative capacity, having anything to say as to whether it shall be carried out or not. Over and above that, I should like an assurance that its technical experts will not be taken from the Navy. There are men who make a special study of the technical side of Admiralty aviation, and how far it is possible for aeroplanes to operate for battleships. I beg of the Government, in their desire to make a clean sweep, not to make it so clean as to rob the Army of those men who have made a special study of the requirements of the Navy for operations or other- wise.

§ The CHAIRMAN
That does not arise here

§ Sir F. SMITH
The hon. Gentleman (Mr. Billing) has told us of a number of things upon which, in his judgment, the people of this country will insist. I believe that the people of this country desire this Bill to pass into law, and I therefore hope that the eloquence of the friends, supporters, or critics of the Bill will not prevent us from getting the Committee stage to-night. My hon and gallant Friend who has been in charge of the Bill has shown a courtesy, a patience, and a desire to consider every point of view from every quarter of the Committee, and I feel sure that hon. Members desire that his 538 efforts should meet with the success which not only they deserve, but the public necessities require, namely, that there should be no delay in the progress of the Bill. Let me not come into conflict with my own admonitions, and, is briefly as I can, let me reply to the speech of the Mover of the new Clause. My hon. and gallant Friend (Colonel Gretton) is fully entitled to have his views on military subjects considered, because for a good many years he has given a good deal of time and consideration to these matters, and that at a time when such consideration was not as fashionable as it is to-day. At the same time he must really do the Government the justice to suppose that this Bill has not been introduced without constant weekly and daily discussions between the best brains of the War Office, the best brains of the Admiralty, and the best brains of the infant Air Service. These problems have been considered, received, and discussed, and re-discussed. It is not saying, I hope, anything in any way offensive to my hon. and gallant Friend if I tell him that neither the Army Council nor the Admiralty want this Amendment.
This Bill is the result of an agreement between the Army Council. the Admiralty, .and the Air Board as to the functions which shall he allotted to this new Air Council. I, for one, can hardly conceive anything more insane than that this House of Commons, in the day in which the term " amateur strategist " is already open to a considerable degree of obloquy—and if we presume to describe ourselves as strategists we must rightly agree that we are all amateur strategists—I cannot conceive any way in which the House of Commons could cover itself with greater ridicule than when the most distinguished officers of the Army and the most distinguished officers of the Navy have come to an agreement that we should take it upon ourselves to give directions to these Departments which do not correspond to their desires and do not correspond to this Bill, which represents their desires. I do not believe that the House of Commons will do anything so foolish. I attempted to explain in my speech on the Second Reading that it is intended, and clearly intended, that when the new Air Ministry has discharged its function of making provision both for the Army and the Navy, and when it has lent a contribution, if I may use a non-military term, either to the Army or the Navy, while 539 that contribution is serving in either the Army or the Navy it must be in military subordination to the force to which it is lent. To lay down more would be absurd; to lay down less has never been attempted. I hope the Committee will not accept the new Clause.

§ Mr. BILLING
Are we to understand from that answer that it is the intention of the Government to take from the Admiralty all the machines which are specially designed for operations with the Fleet and transfer them to the Air Council, or are they going to be allowed to retain such machines are are essential?

§ The CHAIRMAN
That really does not arise on this new Clause.

§ Colonel GRETTON
rose—

§ Sir F. SMITH
Let us get on.

§ Colonel GRETTON
I think the Attorney-General might allow us to spend what time is left—

§ Sir F. SMITH
There are other new Clauses. I cannot let you spend time.

§ Colonel GRETTON
It is the last Clause on the Paper.

§ Sir F. SMITH
No; it is not. We shall not get the Bill to-night.

§ Colonel GRETTON
I do not want to delay the House for any such purpose. I have not delayed the Committee during the discussion, and I do not intend to do so now, but I must press the Government to answer that question, which is at the root of the whole matter. I understand now that the Air Service, acting with the Army, will be under Army orders in general combination for military purposes, and the same as regards the Navy. That is entirely satisfactory, and what I anticipated. What I want to ascertain, and what the Attorney-General has avoided answering, is, Is it intended that the Air Council shall retain under its own control and its own command, and send forth for operations of war, any portions of the Air Force, or is the Air Force to be at the disposal of the naval and military authorities and will not make war on its own account? That really requires answering. It is a most important question, and I really must press the Government to give some consideration to it, and state to the Committee and the country outside what it means.

§ Sir F. SMITH
The hon. and gallant Gentleman is entitled to assume from what I said exactly what I said, and nothing further. I said when contributions were made, either to the Army or Navy, they would be under the command of the Army and the Navy. If there remain independent operations which do not take place because specific contributions have been made either to the Army or the Navy, these will take place under the direction of the Air Ministry, and the most distinguished soldiers at the War Office have assented to and recommend that course to the House of Commons.

§ Colonel GRETTON
The Attorney-General has made a very important statement. I do not think it would be right to press the matter further to-night. He assures us it has the highest military sanction, and I take it that includes naval sanction. I put down these two new Clauses for the purpose of eliciting information. The matter requires some little delay, and will be brought up again on Report. I ask leave to withdraw.

§ The CHAIRMAN
Amendments to the Title can only be made if it is necessary to bring the Title into accordance with the Bill. No Amendment has been made in the Bill at this stage requiring that to be done. I have three further manuscript Amendments of the hon. Member (Mr. Billing) not disposed of.

§ Mr. BILLING
There are considerably more than three. I handed in altogether twelve. Most of them are new Clauses, which, with your permission, I will move.

§ The CHAIRMAN
I tried to explain to the hon. Member, but he did not seem very willing for me to help him. I did so as far as I could. All these proposals he has handed in should be Amendments to Clauses. I drew attention to them at the time, and asked him to move them as Amendments to Clauses.

§ Mr. BILLING
May I call attention to the fact that I raised these matters with you and you pointed out that they were all new Clauses, and as such would have to be taken after the Amendments have been disposed of in order. In consequence of that I allowed the matter to stand 541 over, and now, with your permission and under your ruling, I propose to move my new Amendments.

§ The CHAIRMAN
The hon. Member is mistaken. He handed in a considerable number of these manuscript papers at the beginning of the proceedings. I went through them as rapidly as I could and I informed the hon. Member that they were not new Clauses, but that they were in the nature of Amendments to various Clauses, and as fast as I could I altered them and put them into correct form. That is rather an unusaul thing for the Chairman to do, but I wanted to assist the hon. Member, and I dealt with as many as I could in that way. For his information I may say that the ones that have been left over, and which I was unable to get through and to alter into their correct forms, should come as Amendments to Clause 2 or Clause 3. Those dealing with questions of rank and uniform should be Amendments to Clause 2. There is another which refers to transfers to the Air Force, and that should come as an Amendment to Clause 3. I have done all that I could to help the hon. Member. The question now is that I do Report the Bill.

§ Mr. BILLING
On a point of Order. I have a Clause which distinctly states: "It shall be lawful for the Board of Admiralty and the Army Council, respectively, to nominate an associate member of the Air Council, which member shall have the right to take part in the discussions and vote on all measures." That, surely, is a separate Clause. When the Clause was being dealt with my attention was never called to the fact that this new Clause was in the nature of an Amendment to a Clause. How could it be an Amendment when there is no reference in the Bill to the appointment of an associate member? Surely it must be in the nature of a new Clause.

§ The CHAIRMAN
I have gone out of my way to assist the hon. Member. It is not the duty of the Chair to put Amendments in order, and if the hon. Member had been more experienced I should have left him to deal with them himself. He must not trespass upon my patience. I have done my best to help him and will do so if he reciprocates with courtesy.

§ Mr. BILLING
I am only too willing to meet anything in the nature of an act of grace in this House more than half-way, but, so far as this matter is concerned, there are certain New Clauses here which 542 I feel quite sure, do not—if you will look at them—come as Amendments to any existing Clause. For example, I have here a new Clause which provides that it shall be lawful for the Air Council to demand the immediate transference to the Air Service of all aeroplanes, seaplanes, dirigibles, airships, rigid and non-rigid, balloons, spherical and otherwise, arms, explosives—

HON. MEMBERS
Order, order !

§ The CHAIRMAN
I can assure the hon. Member I have had these matters before me during the whole of the day, and have most carefully gone through them, and these cannot be brought up as new Clauses. They are in the nature of Amendments to existing Clauses in the Bill. The Question is that I do report the Bill to the House.

§ Mr. BILLING
rose—

HON. MEMBERS
Order, order!

§ Mr. BILLING
I am not going to be put down in this way. I am going to get this matter cleared up, whether you want to come here on Friday or not. Here is a new Clause which has no possible bearing on any Clause in the Bill. There is no Clause in which I could have introduced this Amendment. This is a Clause to permit of the material of the Air Service being devoted by the Ministry in times of peace to peaceful purposes. If you can suggest to what Clause this could be taken as an Amendment, which reads, "At such times as His Majesty's realm"—

§ The CHAIRMAN
The hon. Member is not entitled to go into that. I have given my very best help. The hon. Member must not question my ruling further.

§ Mr. BILLING
On a point of Order—

§ The CHAIRMAN
The Question is, " That I report the Bill, with Amendments, to the House."

§ Mr. BILLING
On a point of Order—

§ The CHAIRMAN
I have listened as far as I could properly to the hon. Member's points of Order, and I think that I have dealt fairly with him.

§ Mr. BILLING
This is what you call muzzling the House of Commons.