HC Deb 14 November 1917 vol 99 cc486-90

(1) It shall be lawful for His Majesty to raise and maintain an Air Force Reserve and an Auxiliary Air Force consisting in each case of such number of officers, warrant officers, non - commissioned officers, and men as may from time to time be provided by Parliament, and to provide for the transfer or attachment to the Auxiliary Air Force, subject to their consent, officers and men of any unit of the Territorial Force which at the passing of this Act forms part of the Royal Flying Corps.

(2) His Majesty may, by Order in Council, apply with the necessary adaptations to the Air Force Reserve, or to the Auxiliary Air Force, or to the officers or men of any such force, any enactment relating to the Army Reserve or to the Territorial Force or to the officers or men of those forces, and such Order in Council shall be laid before both Houses of Parliament.

Mr. BILLING

I beg to move, in Subsection (1), after the word " of " [" unit of the Territorial Force "], to insert the words, " the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve or of."

I think most Members will appreciate that members of the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve have as much right as Territorial officers to the advantage which this Clause affords. Territorial officers have become flying officers in the Royal Flying Corps, and this Clause gives them certain advantages which I say should be equally extended to the men of the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve.

Mr. MACPHERSON

Perhaps my hon. Friend will not press this Amendment at the present moment. Before the Report stage my hon. and gallant Friend will say whether he can accept it or not.

Sir I. PHILIPPS

On a question of putting in the word "Royal," is not that a matter for the Crown and not a matter for this House?

Mr. BILLING

The hon. Member will see that my Amendment refers to a force which is already called the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve, which has been in existence a great many years. I suggest that force should be put in the same position to the Navy as is the Territorial Force to the Army. But I might save the time of the Committee by pointing out that I have other Amendments practically on the same point. There is no reason why the Royal Naval Air Service should be penalised, or that the Royal Flying Corps should have the advantage. If reserve officers are to be trained for the Flying Services they should be equally trained both for the Military and Naval Air Services, because they are equally eligible as naval volunteers or Army volunteers before the War. Perhaps the Under-Secretary will give me an assurance that it is the intention not to put the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve outside the scope of this Clause.

Mr. MACPHERSON

This point will be carefully considered before the Bill passes to another place. I understand the Report stage is to be taken to-day.

Mr. BILLING

Does the hon. Gentleman mean that the Report stage is to be taken this evening?

Major BAIRD

If that can be done.

Mr. BILLING

Are we to understand that all these assurances that we have been given as to the consideration of Amendments between now and the Report stage are going to be left aside, and that the Report stage is to be taken to-night? Are the promises which have been made to be like past promises, leading to nothing at all?

Major BAIRD

I have only given one promise.

Mr. HARCOURT

Though the attendance at this Committee is small, I think we are entitled to draw attention to this very interesting situation. The Under-Secretary of State for War has stated that the Report stage is to be taken this evening. While I do not reproach him, I would point out that this is a very unusual proceeding. Having some knowledge of these matters, I myself have hastily prepared a manuscript Amendment in regard to the situa- tion which will arise in connection with the various anti-aircraft units; and there are other points which will arise. Is it absolutely essential, from the point of view of Parliamentary business, that we should take the Report stage as well to-day? I do not think the Committee was aware that such an unusual course was contemplated. There has been no desire shown to obstruct the Bill, and I ask the Government whether they cannot, consistently with the demand 'upon Parliamentary time, find some interval between this and the Report stage.

The CHAIRMAN

I must point out that it does not lie with the Government whether the Report stage shall or shall not be taken to-night; it lies with the House. The Government are only asking the House to assent to the Report stage being taken —I do not say the assent of every individual, but something like general assent.

Major BAIRD

All I asked the House was that if we could get the Report stage, so much the better. With regard to my hon. Friend's Amendment connected with the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve, I am informed that there is no Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve serving as a unit, and. therefore, the Amendment would not be applicable.

Sir I. PHILIPPS

I wish to enter a protest against going on with the Report stage to-night; and, if we had known that was the intention, we would have pressed for very much more definite statements in regard to these matters. It may be that hon. Gentlemen on the Government Bench thought that there was a possibility, seeing matters were going smoothly, of getting the Report stage also. Although that may not have been their intention originally, and they did not have it down on paper, yet it may have occurred to them that they should try to run through the two stages.

Lord H. CECIL

I rather hope that general consent may be forthcoming for taking the Report stage to-day. If the Bill is not passed to-day it may entail the delay of a week or two, which is extremely undesirable in the public interest. I hope that the Government may be able to meet some of the comparatively small points that have been raised by an assurance that they shall be dealt with in another place. As to the particular Amendment, I gather the occasion for it does not arise, otherwise it is one which I view with a good deal of sympathy.

Mr. PRINGLE

I think it is rather unfortunate, if we are to take the Report stage to-day, that the Government should not have made up its mind with regard to the various Amendments on the Paper. I certainly, for one, should not feel satisfied with an assurance that the matter will be dealt with in another place. My experience of the result of such assurances has not been very satisfactory.

Mr. BILLING

May I point out that many of us are looking forward to having a good deal to say on the whole scope of the Bill and the general attitude of the Government in regard to it? We hope for an opportunity to do that on the Report stage, but obviously it has been determined that there shall be no Report stage, because they have managed to struggle through so far without amending the Bill.

The CHAIRMAN

The Bill has already been amended, and therefore there must be a Report stage. I have allowed this discussion to go on, but it is very far from the matter before the Committee. I have pointed out that it is in the hands of the House itself whether or not the Report stage is taken to-night.

Mr. BILLING

In view of the fact that the small number of hon. Members present representing the House, while at the back of the Government there are 200 Members in the Lobbies who know nothing about what is going on, are you going—

The CHAIRMAN

I must ask the hon. Member to be relevant to the Amendment. In this House we endeavour to get through business by taking one thing at a time, and that thing now is the Amendment before the Committee.

Amendment negatived.

The CHAIRMAN

Does the hon. Member move his next Amendment? I think the last Amendment to this Clause, of which he has given notice, is covered by a decision come to on Clause 2, where the hon. Gentleman moved a similar Amendment.

Mr. BILLING

My next Amendment has reference to the Royal Naval Air Service.

The CHAIRMAN

That is disposed of by the decision come to just now. It is part of the proposal which has just been negatived by the Committee.

Mr. BILLING

I accept that view.

The CHAIRMAN

And the hon. Member's last Amendment raises a point similar to that which he brought forward on Clause 2, and which was then negatived.

Mr. BILLING

Yes.

Clause ordered to stand part of the Bill.