HC Deb 14 November 1917 vol 99 cc528-31

(1) The Army Act as in force immediately before the passing of this Act shall, subject to the modifications set out in the Second Schedule to this Act (being Amendments required to adapt that Act to the circumstances of the Air Force) apply with respect to the Air Force, and shall, as so modified, take effect as a separate Act of the present Session of Parliament, and may be printed as a separate Act by the printers to His Majesty and intituled "An Act to provide for the Discipline and Regulation of the Air Force," and that Act may, subject to any modifications which may from time to time be made therein, be cited as the Air Force Act:

Provided that for the purposes of Section eighty-eight of the Air Force Act (relating to the continuance of men in Air Force service in case of emergency) the Proclamation issued under Section eighty-eight of the Army Act on the outbreak of the present War shall have effect as if it had been issued under the first-mentioned, as well as the last-mentioned, Section, and had applied to the Air Force as well as to the Army.

(2) The Air Force Act shall continue in force only as long as the Army Act continues in force.

(3) Where by any enactment passed after the passing of this Act any Amendments are made in the Army Act the corresponding Amendments shall be made in the Air Force Act, subject to such modifications and exceptions as His Majesty in Council may declare to be necessary for adapting the same to the Air Force.

(4) Where by any enactment passed after the passing of this Act and for the time being in force any enactments or words are directed to be substituted in the Army Act or the Air Force Act for any other enactments or words, or to be added to or omitted from the Army Act or the Air Force Act, then all copies of the Air Force Act printed after such direction takes effect shall be printed with the said enactments or words added to the said Act or omitted therefrom, or inserted therein in lieu of any enactments or words for which the same are to be substituted, according as such direction requires, and with the Sections and Subsections numbered in accordance with such direction, but, as respects Amendments to the Army Act, subject to such modifications and exceptions as aforesaid, and the Air Force Act shall be construed as if it had at the time at which such direction takes effect been enacted with such addition, omission, or substitution.

(5) A reference in any enactment passed after the passing of this Act to the Air Force Act shall, unless the context otherwise requires, be construed to refer to the Air Force Act as amended by any enactment for the time being in force.

Colonel GRETTON

I,beg to move, in Sub-section (1), after the word " Force " [" be cited as the Air Force Act"], to insert the word " discipline."

This is quite a simple matter of drafting. I propose that the Act referred to at this point in Sub-section (1) shall be called the Air Force Discipline Act: We are in this dilemma, as was pointed out earlier in the Debate, that the whole of this Bill is called the Air Force Bill, but that in Clause 12 it is intended to set up an annual Act, to be renewed in the same way as the Army Act; to carry forward the rules of discipline and the regulations affecting discipline and other matters of that kind, in the same way as is done with the Army Act. There would be the greatest possible difficulty in differentiating between the whole Bill, which sets up the Ministry, in its organisation and matters of that kind, and the limited Bill, which has to be renewed yearly in the same way as the Army Act. I therefore propose that the smaller measure, which is subject to annual renewal, should be called the Air Force Discipline Act. There is, of course, an alternative. It might have a different name, and be called the Air Force Council Bill; but clearly some step has to be taken to differentiate between the Whole Bill and the limited part. I think it would be convenient to call it the Air Force Discipline, Act.

Major BAIRD

I hope my hon. and gallant Friend who has moved this

Amendment will not think it unreasonable if I ask permission to consider it. I have only at this moment heard of it, and perhaps he will allow me to bear it in mind and have it examined with a view to dealing with the matter on Report?

Colonel GRETTON

I do not want to delay the Committee, and I am quite satisfied with the way in which my hon. and gallant Friend receives the suggestion. I would only like to say that I have made every kind of effort to make a communication to him on the subject, and also to his colleague, during a considerable portion of this evening, but apparently they have been so occupied with other matters that they could not pay attention to it.

Mr. BILLING

Surely here is an illustration of how much Parliamentary time could be saved provided we could have someone who could give a decision in a small matter like this. On this Bill, in everything we have put forward we have been promised that it will be considered, and yet until just recently we have been asked to take the Report stage to-night. Might I appeal to Members on the Treasury Bench to find if they can in this House of Commons a responsible Minister of the Crown who can give decisions on trivial matters such as whether the word " discipline " shall become part of the Bill, and in that way not only accelerate its passage, but pass it into law?

Amendment negatived.

Amendment made: At the end of Subsection (2) insert the words, " and during the present War the number of the forces mentioned in the preamble to the Army Annual Act shall include the number of the Air Forces." —[Major Baird.]

Mr. BILLING

I beg to move, in Subsection (3), to leave out the words, " subject to such modification and exceptions as His Majesty in Council may declare to be necessary for adapting the same to the Air Force."

The reason I move this Amendment is that there seems to me considerable licence allowed in this Bill for all sorts of changes. The Bill says, " Such modifications and exceptions as His Majesty in Council may declare to be necessary for adapting the same to the Air Force." Earlier in the Bill power has been taken, in Clause 2, to alter discipline by Orders in Council, and perhaps the hon. and gallant Member will explain why it is necessary again here. Why should modifications and exceptions be made in all these matters purely by Order in Council? I do not know whether there is any other method of doing it which is more constitutional. Perhaps the Noble Lord (Lord H. Cecil), who is such an expert in these matters, and who, I am sure, is anxious to help this Bill through, will tell us whether he knows of a more constitutional method than that employed here by taking power through all these Orders in Council. Perhaps the hon. and gallant Gentleman on the Front Bench will allay the fears which have been responsible for my Amendment.

Major BAIRD

If the hon. Member will look at Part II. of the First Schedule he will see the kind of modification which is meant. If you accept the principle of the Army Act, it is necessary to have some such provision as this in order to carry out the necessary modifications. The word " soldier " does not cover "airman," and " airman" does not cover " soldier."

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr. BILLING

I had given notice to move, in Sub-section (4), to leave out the words " but, as respects Amendments to the Army Act subject to such modifications and exceptions as aforesaid," but I presume that the hon. Member's assurance is similar to that given on the previous Amendment.

Major BAIRD

Yes.

Mr. BILLING

Then I will not move.

Clause, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.