§ 25. Mr. BOLANDasked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether he has now made further inquiries into the cases of flogging of Irish soldiers, by order of Lieutenant Gilliland, in the prisoners of war camp in Philippopolis; whether any cases of flogging by German officers of German soldiers has been reported to him from any prisoners of war camps in this country, or of flogging by Turkish officers of Turkish soldiers in prisoners' camps; and what further action he has taken in the matter?
§ Mr. MACPHERSONI have carefully perused all the information available, and 199 I have come to the conclusion that the charge made against Lieutenant Gilliland in this question has been recklessly and unjustly made. He was not the commandant of the camp, and the orders for flogging for admitted offences were given by the commandant. I received yesterday from our Foreign Office a copy of a letter which the Foreign Office received from the American Embassy here. It is dated October 11th, 1917, and is from Mr. Murphy, of the Legation of the United States of America in Sofia, and is addressed to Lieutenant Gilliland's sister. As it states the other side to a cruel charge against an officer—a charge which will make pleasant reading for our enemies and is abhorrent to us—I think that I ought to read it, and at the same time remind the House that Mr. Murphy's statements are corroborated by Mr. War-field and Mr. Einstein, who preceded Mr. Murphy at the Legation at Sofia:
§ "Legation of the United States of America,
§ Sofia, 11th October, 1917.
§ Dear—I am in receipt of your favour of the 14th September and am deeply grieved that any of the returned British prisoners of war should have accused your brother unjustly. To say that he ordered British prisoners to be flogged is absolutely untrue.
§ The fact is that flogging is in vogue in the Bulgarian Army as punishment for a certain class of offences. Flogging was the rule at the camp, and your brother was powerless to prevent it. When men not only sold their own clothes and parcels, but stole those of others to get drink, your brother would have failed in his duty had he not reported the matter to the Commandant. The latter told me on several occasions that he never could have conceived that men could so brutalise themselves until he had seen them brought to the camp completely stupefied by drink. It was by his order the flogging was done, and in so doing he was carrying out the regulations prescribed for him.
§ Your brother spoke to me of the horror he had of flogging, and asked if. I could not have a stop put to it. As such form of punishment is utterly abhorrent to me, I appealed to the Commandant and to the Colonel Commanding so strongly that flogging was thereupon abolished so far as British prisoners were concerned. It was your brother who first called my attention to the thing, and I well remember his expressions of gratification that it had been abolished. The very large majority of the British prisoners of war at the Philippopolis camp are very decent and well-behaved. It is the few who seem to have so lost all sense of decency that ordinary confinement in gaol or guard-house has no effect. Your brother is innocent—so please make your mind easy. You may use this letter in any way you may deem proper, and I shall be glad, if called upon officially, to put your brother, for whom I have high admiration and warm regard, in the right light.
§ I beg to remain, dear—
§ Sincerely yours,
§ (Signed) D. J. MURPHY."
§ Mr. BOLANDAre we to understand, then, that the statements voluntarily given in one case by four repatriated Irish prisoners, who were not themselves flogged, but who spoke from their own knowledge of flogging having taken place, and a voluntary statement by Sergeant 200 Edgerton, of the Hampshire Regiment, taken at a time quite different from the time of the statements of the Irish prisoners, are absolutely unreliable?
§ Mr. MACPHERSONI can tell the House that I spent two hours this morning reading over the documents. I saw the statements of the four repatriated Irish prisoners, of the Connaught Rangers, to the president of the Irish Prisoners of War Association, and I also saw the statement made to the Government Committee of the Foreign Office. Those two statements are entirely contradictory. In one statement they made it perfectly plain that Lieutenant Gilliland showed no unfairness in the distribution of food or clothing, and only one of the prisoners mentions flogging at all, and he says that Lieutenant Gilliland might well have stopped it if he lifted his finger.
§ Mr. BOLANDThe hon. Gentleman has not answered my question about Sergeant Edgerton's statement to the Government Committee of the Foreign Office?
§ Mr. MACPHERSONI read Sergeant Edgerton's report to the Government Committee of the Foreign Office, and he never mentions the word "flogging."
§ Mr. MacVEAGHIs it not the fact that in the original statement made by these men these charges were most specifically made?
§ Mr. MACPHERSONI do not know. I have no doubt the same men gave two different accounts. They gave one account to the Irish Prisoners of War Association and another to the Government Committee. I am content to abide by the one they gave to the Government Committee, and possibly my hon. Friend is content to abide by the other.
§ Mr. MacVEAGHWere the persons who conducted this investigation independent investigators, and did they warn the repatriated prisoners that their statements would be taken down and might be used in evidence against them?
§ Mr. MACPHERSONI do not suppose they did. Everybody knows the composition of the Government Committee. The President is a judge of the High Court, and the other members are well-known patriotic citizens. They have no wish to endanger the life or liberty of a private soldier any more than of an officer. They accept the statements given to them in good faith.
§ Mr. MacVEAGHCan the hon. Gentleman say of his own knowledge whether those men were assured if they made frank statements they would not be used against them as soldiers in the Army?
§ Mr. MACPHERSONI should see to it that no statement made by any soldier will ever be used against him. This Committee is not a military Committee. There is no officer serving upon the Committee so far as I know.
§ Mr. MacVEAGHThat does not answer my question. What I want to know is did the gentlemen conducting this investigation assure the witnesses that no punishment would follow from their evidence?
§ Mr. MACPHERSONI cannot say that offhand. I cannot imagine any soldier being terrified. I am quite convinced in my own mind that Lieutenant Gilliland gave no such orders for flogging.
§ 77. Mr. ALDENasked the hon. Member for Sheffield (Central Division) whether the British prisoners in the Courland camps have been removed; if so, can he state where they are at present situated; and if he can say whether the supplies of warm clothing which have been promised them for the winter have yet been despatched?
§ Mr. JAMES HOPE (Lord of the Treasury)I am informed by the War Office that information has been received from the Netherland Legation in Berlin that orders were issued some weeks ago for the withdrawal of prisoners from these camps. We have recently inquired by telegram whether the withdrawal has been completed, but have not yet received a reply. Under these circumstances the specially warm clothing which was intended to be sent to these prisoners has not so far been despatched.