HC Deb 08 March 1917 vol 91 cc537-40
50. Mr. GINNELL

asked the Prime Minister what guarantee is now being given to Irish workers, skilled and unskilled, respectively, induced by the offer of high wages to come to this country, that they will not be forced into the Army when here; through what channel is the guarantee conveyed to the men; whether it is retrospective; and why it does not extend to the case of James Bray, an Irish carpenter, so induced to come to this country, who worked at military buildings while here, and yet has been forced into the Army and is now, as No. 8384, Reserve Battalion, 18th County of London Regiment, undergoing punishment for refusing to obey military orders?

Mr. MACPHERSON

My right hon. Friend has asked me to answer this question. I would refer the hon. Member to the answers given on February 14th and yesterday to the hon. Member for Dublin Harbour. The hon. Member was informed on the 22nd February that Bray was arrested by the civil police on their own initiative and was found to be liable for military service by a Civil Court. An invitation has already been given to both hon. Members to supply further particulars of this case, when further inquiries will be made.

Mr. GINNELL

The hon. Gentleman has omitted to answer the earlier part of the question, namely, what guarantee is now being given to Irish workers, skilled and unskilled, respectively, to induce them to come to this country, that they will not be forced into the Army when they come?

Mr. MACPHERSON

I do not know of any such guarantee being given to anybody. If an Irishman conies across to this country he may be arrested by the military if it is assumed that he is ordinarily resident in this country.

Mr. T. M. HEALY

The hon. Gentleman very courteously gave me notice of this case the other day. [HON. MEMBERS: "Speak up!"] Will he kindly tell me what has become of Mr. Bray?

Mr. MACPHERSON

I cannot answer offhand. I gave a very full answer to the hon. Member for the Dublin Harbour Division (Mr. Byrne) yesterday.

Mr. SNOWDEN

Is the hon. Gentleman aware of the effect which the answer he has just given will have upon the demands which are now being made for Irish labourers to come to this country to engage in war work; and is it not a fact that the present Secretary of State for the Colonies, in reply to a question put by me to him, said that if they came to this country for such service they need not fear being compelled to undertake military service?

Mr. MACPHERSON

That is perfectly true. The War Office acts entirely in accordance with the Act.

Mr. GINNELL

Are we in Ireland to take it that men induced by the Government to come to this country to work in any capacity, skilled or unskilled, are not safe from Conscription?

Mr. MACPHERSON

The hon. Member has me at a disadvantage. I know of no such guarantee having been given by the Government.

Mr. GINNELL

Then, if they come, they must come at their own risk?

Mr. T. M. HEALY

Was the answer given a minute ago on the question of Irish labourers quite a settled answer, or is there not some confusion which perhaps might be cleared up before the House meets again? I would ask the Under-Secretary for War to consider the matter between now and Monday.

Mr. MACPHERSON

I am grateful to my hon. and learned Friend for giving me the opportunity of making clear what is the exact position. Men who come from Ireland for national service are afforded protection from the Military Service Acts, and this protection will be accorded to them.

Mr. GINNELL

Through what channel is this information conveyed to the people in Ireland?

Mr. PRINGLE

Are we to understand that the statement of my hon. Friend is a pledge?

Mr. MACPHERSON

It is a pledge.

Mr. SNOWDEN

Of the same value as the rest?

Mr. GINNELL

Through what channel is that information conveyed to the people in Ireland?

Mr. MACPHERSON

That guarantee is given by those who recruit them.

Mr. PRINGLE

Is the hon. Gentleman not aware that a number of guarantees have been given by people who recruited which were disregarded? What guarantee have these people that the guarantees will be observed?

Mr. T. WILSON

Is not this the position, that if men are sent from Ireland through Labour Exchanges to this country to work in a munitions factory or at work of national importance they are guaranteed that they will not be called up under the Military Service Acts as long as they remain in that employment, but if that employment ceases and they are transferred to other work of national importance by a Labour Exchange that guarantee still holds good?

Mr. MACPHERSON

I think that my hon. Friend is correct in his statement.

Mr. GINNELL

Are we to understand that if men are induced to come from Ireland to this country to one particular work they are safe while there, but if transferred to any other work they are conscripted?

Mr. MACPHERSON

No. The hon. Member is quite wrong in his assumption. So long as they perform work of national importance they are exempted.

Mr. GINNELL

Was not the work of a carpenter engaged on a munitions building a work of National Service, and, that being so, will he explain why James Bray is now being punished for refusing to become a soldier?

Mr. MACPHERSON

I have already answered that question very fully.

Sir WALTER ESSEX

Do these men from Ireland, who are working for a Department in this country, require a domicile or residence? HON. MEMBERS: "No!"] If that is not so, what time will they have during which they will be allowed to move about this country before they can return to Ireland and become free from Conscription?

Mr. MACPHERSON

They would not be liable in any case.