HC Deb 09 July 1917 vol 95 cc1601-5
62. Mr. BILLING

asked the Prime Minister whether he has received any diplomatic representations by the French Government with reference to the initiation of a sustained air offensive over Germany; and, if so, whether he is prepared to make any statement on the subject?

The following question also stood on the Paper in the name of the HON. MEMBER:

64. To ask the Prime Minister whether his attention has been called to the statement made by Lord Montagu in another place that the City of London was a legitimate objective for the German airmen; and, if so, whether he will now state if, in the view of the Government, air raids on London and/or other big munition centres are considered as acts of war or as outrages?

Mr. JOYNSON-HICKS

(by Private Notice) to ask the Prime Minister whether, having regard to the fact that in the recent aeroplane raids on this country culminating in that of Saturday last the raiders returned home with practical immunity so far as destruction in this country was concerned, he is of opinion that our defences are satisfactory; whether he is now prepared to appoint a small Parliamentary Committee to inquire into the causes of our failure to cope effectively with the raiders; and whether the War Cabinet is now prepared to direct the carrying of the Air War into the enemy's territory by definite raids of a punitive character on some or one of the German military and munition towns on the Rhine?

Mr. PETO

(by Private Notice) to ask the Prime Minister whether he will now see that adequate retribution by air attack is inflicted on a city in German territory. to be selected by the Air Service and Army Council, for the enemy air raids on London of the 13th June and 7th July?

Mr. BONAR LAW

The Government propose to move the Adjournment this evening in order that there may be a Private Sitting to discuss the subject of air defences. This and other questions of which I have received private notice will, I think, best be answered by the Prime Minister, who hopes to deal with the matter.

Mr. BILLING

Should I be in order in asking leave to move the Adjournment at the end of questions, so that we may have an opportunity of a public Debate, and then, if we find it necessary to go into Secret Session, we can do so? The feeling in the country is very intense.

Mr. SPEAKER

The hon. Member will not advance matters in that way, because it will still be open to anybody to espy strangers.

Mr. LOUGH

Does my right hon. Friend intend to move the Adjournment immediately after questions?

Mr. BONAR LAW

The Government propose to take that course about 8.30 this evening. It is obvious that it is not possible to give information in public which alone would enable the House of Commons to understand what is the situation.

Mr. McKENNA

Will the discussion be opened with a statement by the Government?

Mr. BONAR LAW

I have not discussed this question with the Prime Minister, but I take it for granted that he himself will make the first statement.

Mr. CHURCHILL

Will the right hon. Gentleman arrange to have a confidential record taken of what passes in the Secret Session, and will he consider whether it may not be possible afterwards, by arrangement between the parties and the authorities concerned, to give an expurgated account of what has taken place in order that as much knowledge as possible may be given to the public without detriment to the public interest?

Mr. BONAR LAW

It is obvious that there is a great deal of force in what my light hon. Friend says, but there are two considerations that must govern the matter. One is public opinion outside and the other is opinion in the House of Commons. We consider that it is our duty first of all to satisfy the House of Commons as to what is being done, and this can best be done only by a Private Session. As to the public, I am not sure that the suggestion of my right hon. Friend can be adopted, but I shall consider it and discuss the matter with the Prime Minister.

Mr. BILLING

Are we to understand that the public is not represented by this House?

Mr. BONAR LAW

It must be pretty obvious to the House that the public cannot be influenced by statements which they have not had an opportunity of hearing.

Sir HENRY DALZIEL

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether, when the Government came to the decision to hold a Secret Session, they took into consideration the fact that the public are entitled to know who are guilty of culpable negligence in regard to this matter? I give notice now that I shall oppose the Secret Session to-night.

Mr. BONAR LAW

Might I suggest to my right hon. Friend that there are two quite separate considerations. We think that our first duty is to satisfy the House of Commons if we can. If, after the Debate to-night, my right hon. Friend still thinks that there should be a public discussion we shall throw no obstacles in the way.

Colonel CLAUDE LOWTHER

Does the right hon. Gentleman suggest that a. Secret Session will satisfy the relatives of the people who have lost their lives by these German air raids?

Mr. BONAR LAW

I am not sure that if people only knew what it will be possible to tell the House they would not agree that a case exists for the course we suggest, but at any rate surely it is wise that the House of Commons should hear what we have to say first.

Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTT

I want to ask a question about the suspension of the Rule.

Mr. SPEAKER

The Rule cannot be suspended without notice.

Mr. BILLING

Again may I ask if I shall be in order in asking leave to move the Adjournment of the House?

Mr. SPEAKER

The hon. Member will be in order, but he will not gain anything, the Government themselves having undertaken to move the Adjournment.

98. Mr. BILLING

asked the Under-Secretary of State for War at what time last Wednesday the first intimation was received of the approach of enemy aircraft to our coasts; at what time were the first orders given for our machines to take the air for purposes of defence; and at what time the anti-aircraft batteries on the coast were given the Field-Marshal's air-action order?

99. Mr. BILLING

asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether any maps or charts used by enemy airmen in air raids over this country have come into the possession of the War Office or any other authority; whether these charts not only gave the positions of our latest anti-aircraft gun emplacements but also indicated the position of prospective antiaircraft gun emplacements; and whether they have any knowledge of how this secret information as to the latest decisions of the War Council came into the possession of the enemy?

Mr. MACPHERSON

It is obviously undesirable from every point of view to give the information for which the hon. Member asks.

Mr. BILLING

May we take it that for the Debate which it is proposed shall take place the hon. Gentleman will put himself in possession of the actual facts, so that we may have an answer to this question in Secret Session if not in Open Session?

Mr. MACPHERSON

My hon. Friend should put that question to the Leader of the House.

Mr. BILLING

May I ask the Leader of the House if we can have an answer in Secret Session to such questions as to whether any maps or charts used by enemy airmen have come into the possession of the War Office?

Mr. BONAR LAW

I can give no answer to a question which I have had no opportunity of examining.

Mr. BILLING

Will the representatives of the War Office and of the Admiralty be here, and will all the information that Members may wish to have be available if we are in Secret Session?

Mr. BONAR LAW

The representatives of the two Services will be here, but I cannot promise that all the information will be given.

Mr. BILLING

What is the use of going into Secret Session if we are not to get the information we want?

Mr. SPEAKER

The hon. Member is travelling a long way from the question on the Paper.