HC Deb 09 July 1917 vol 95 cc1625-7
Mr. SPEAKER

The Clerk will now proceed to read the Orders of the Day.

Mr. KING

On a point of Order. If the Government move the Adjournment of the House at 8.30 this evening, will that enable the day given for Supply to be counted as an allotted day; or, in accordance with the Standing Order—that no business other than the business of Supply shall be taken before eleven o'clock—will it not be necessary that this should be excluded for computation as an allotted day?

Mr. SPEAKER

A Motion for the Adjournment of the House is not technically "other business" which would invalidate the appropriation of the day.

Mr. KING

Is it not rather a quibble of words, in view of this being most important business in reality, that the Government should be allowed to take it as an allotted day?

Mr. SPEAKER

The hon. Member must form his own judgment as to what is or is not a quibble. I believe the matter has very often occurred previously, and it has always been so ruled.

Sir WALTER ESSEX

May I ask whether it is proposed to extend the time for the Debate to-night, because two hours and a half seems to some of us rather short?

Mr. BILLING

On a point of Order. May I ask you, Sir, what action a private Member of this House can take who rises at the end of Questions before you have spoken on another matter, and if you fail to see him? Can he go on addressing the House, or must he wait until you see him?

Mr. SPEAKER

He must wait until he is called.

Mr. BILLING

Before you rose, Sir, at the end of Questions, I rose for the purpose of asking leave. Am I out of order in calling your attention to the fact that I was standing, and that you turned your head away and refused to see me?

Mr. SPEAKER

The hon. Member can speak for himself as to what he was doing, but I cannot accept his version as to what occurred and as to what I was doing. The hon. Member never gave me notice that he was going to move the Adjournment. The Government have given notice that they are going to do it, and therefore I assumed the hon. Member would not wish to imperil the chances of there being such a Motion.

Mr. BILLING

Half an hour ago I gave the House and yourself notice that I proposed to move the Adjournment to call attention to Saturday's air raid, and at that time you said there was no occasion for my doing it, because the Government were going to do it. The position I take-up is that we are anxious that this House should have an opportunity of expressing its opinion as to whether it wishes the matter to be taken in Secret Session or in Public Session. That is the only opportunity we shall have of going into the-Lobby.

Mr. SPEAKER

The hon. Member is mistaken. He will have an opportunity of doing that when the Motion is made that strangers be ordered to withdraw.

Mr. BILLING

May I give notice that I shall oppose the Motion that strangers be ordered to withdraw?

Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTT

At an earlier stage in the proceedings I desired to ask a question of the Government about the suspension of the Eleven o' Clock Rule to-night, and you, Sir, ruled that that would require notice. On that matter I now ask whether a member of the Government is not entitled to move the suspension of the Eleven o' Clock Rule, without notice, in cases where notice is-dispensed with by the general concurrence of the House. Paragraph 115 of the "Manual of Procedure" of the House says: As a general rule every Motion proposed in the House requires notice, unless it falls within one of the following excepted cases. Among the excepted cases is one mentioned in paragraph (7): Cases where notice is dispensed with by the general concurrence of the House.

Mr. SPEAKER

That does not apply to the Standing Order. If it is desired to suspend the Standing Order, that must be done by formal notice handed in the day before so that the House may know what is proposed.

Colonel CLAUDE LOWTHER

Should I be in order in moving the Adjournment of the House upon the subject, or should I have to give notice?

Mr. SPEAKER

The Prime Minister is going to do it himself.

Colonel LOWTHER

Is there any means by which we can have a public discussion instead of a secret discussion?

Mr. SPEAKER

The hon. Member can oppose the Motion that strangers do withdraw.

Mr. BILLING

If a private Member's view is not the same view as that of the Prime Minister on any subject, is a private Member to have no opportunity of expressing his view?

Mr. SPEAKER

The hon. Member takes plenty of opportunities.

Mr. MACMASTER rose—

Mr. SPEAKER

There must be a limit to this. The Clerk will now proceed to read the Orders of the Day.