HC Deb 25 October 1916 vol 86 cc1103-8
20. Mr. GINNELL

asked the Secretary of State for War whether any gratuity or allowance is made to the parents of young men who, induced by drink or other such means, joined the Army in the first year of the War and fell in action; and, if so, why no such gratuity or allowance has been paid to Patrick Walsh in respect of his son James Walsh, aged nineteen, No. 4562, 3rd Company 1st Battalion Irish Guards, killed in action 26th October, 1915?

Mr. FORSTER

Walsh enlisted in October, 1913, and there is nothing to show that while he was a soldier his parents were at any time dependent on him.

Mr. GINNELL

Will nothing be done in the matter?

Mr. FORSTER

I do not think so. There are no pre-war dependants.

34. Mr. SUTTON

asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether notices are being sent out to relatives of soldiers, asking them whether they could do with a less amount in separation allowance than they are already receiving; is he aware that the allowance is already too small in thousands of cases; and, in view of the high cost of foodstuffs, etc., will he consider the advisability of increasing the amounts of allowances, and also put a stop to further circulars being sent out to soldiers' relatives?

Mr. FORSTER

No, Sir. It has been found necessary to ask them to make de- claration on a life certificate that all persons for whom allowance is drawn are alive, and that they are not aware of any reason—such as death of a child, etc.—why the payment should be reduced or stopped. As regards rates of allowance, I would refer my hon. Friend to my reply on 17th October to the hon. Member for the Attercliffe Division of Sheffield.

Mr. SUTTON

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that relatives who have sons in the Army and who are only receiving a small allowance of 7s. 6d. or 8s. a week, are being asked by these circulars whether they can do with a less amount, and that trade unions all over the country have entered their protest against this miserly work on the part of the War Office?

Mr. FORSTER

With all respect to my hon. Friend, I do not think his information is correct. I am not aware of any circular which asks these people if they can do with a less amount. What has been sent out is a life certificate which they have been asked to fill up.

Mr. HOGGE

As a result of this reexamination is the hon. Gentleman aware that a great number of these cases are now being deprived of the supplementary rent allowance which the Chancellor of the Exchequer and this House have said they are willing to take over when the National Belief Fund ceases to be available?

Mr. FORSTER

No, Sir, I do not see how that can follow upon the circular that has been sent out. If my hon. Friend will give me further information about it, I will look into it.

37. Mr. ANDERSON

asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether his attention has been called to the repeated cases in which soldiers who have been accepted by the doctors as fit for active service and passed into the Army are afterwards discharged on account of illness and denied any pension; whether he is aware of the desire that the War Office should accept financial liability toward those who have been accepted and passed for service; and what further action he proposes to take?

Mr. FORSTER

If the illness in such cases is due to, or aggravated by, military service, financial liability is accepted by the War Office, but I fear we cannot insure all soldiers against the ordinary risks of life.

Mr. HOGGE

In view of the fact that the Paymaster-General has said that these cases will require to be discussed by Parliament, will not the War Office give these men a temporary allowance in the meantime, seeing that they neither get pensions nor their wives separation allowances?

Mr. ANDERSON

When a soldier is discharged owing to severe kidney trouble, how can the doctors tell whether or not that trouble has been aggravated by military service?

Mr. FORSTER

That is one of the difficult questions that the doctors have to decide.

Mr. ANDERSON

It is impossible!

38 Mr. DUFFY

asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office (1) whether the two boys of Widow Smyth, Loughrea, responded to the appeal for help and joined the Army from their college; whether, if they had been less patriotic and remained at home, they would be now contributing to the support of Mrs. Smyth and her family; whether separation allowances were refused to this lady on the ground that her children were at college; having regard to the public spirit displayed by the young men and the necessity on the other hand of assisting the widowed mother to maintain the rest of the family in their absence, whether he will take steps immediately to redress this case of hardship; (2) whether he received a copy of a resolution passed by the Loughrea Pension Sub-committee having reference to a defect in the Regulations regulating the separation allowances of young men who, after coming to the age of manhood and after being educated and prepared for taking their positions in life, and prospectively with helping to make ample return to the parents for the outlay incurred, get no solatium in the way of separation allowance when they volunteer for the Army during the War; whether he proposes to take any action in the matter; and (3) whether his attention has been called to the claim of Mrs. Ellen Kelly, of Loughrea, Ireland, for separation allowance for her son, who, after serving his apprenticeship to the tailoring trade, volunteered and joined the Army; is he aware that this woman had, and has, no means of living, except the prospective earnings of her son; and, in the absence of the usual separation allowance granted to all soldiers' dependants, will he state whether he proposes to take any action in this case?

Mr. FORSTER

I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply which I gave to a similar question on 12th April by the hon. Member for East Edinburgh.

40. Mr. ELLIS DAVIES

asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether a married woman whose husband has been killed in the War is not entitled to a pension unless she was at the time of his enlistment living with him, although she had no separate means and could have legally compelled the husband to maintain her?

Mr. FORSTER

Pension is not paid if the man was not supporting his wife either voluntarily or under a maintenance order.

Mr. DAVIES

Are we to understand that, although a wife goes to Court and obtains a maintenance order, she has lost all right?

Mr. FORSTER

It is a question of fact. We can only come to a decision on the facts of the case. The case my hon. Friend has put is a hypothetical case.

Mr. HOGGE

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that when a maintenance allowance is being paid the War Office deny a pension?

Mr. FORSTER

No, Sir. What we do is to pay to the widow, in the case of the maintenance allowance, what a man was actually contributing.

Mr. DAVIES

Are we to understand that, although the wife is legally entitled to be maintained by her husband, and can enforce her right in a Court of Law, at a time when she is actually receiving maintenance from her husband she loses all right if he is killed in the War?

Mr. FORSTER

I do not think the State can do more for the widow than the husband is doing for the wife.

Mr. WARDLE

If we produce cases where there has been a reduction in the payment under the maintenance order, will the hon. Gentleman consider them?

Mr. FORSTER

I do not follow what the hon. Gentleman means by a reduction in the maintenance order. If he will give me a case, I will look into it.

41. Major HUNT

asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether, in view of the fact that under present conditions the pensions for officers totally disabled are quite insufficient, and in view of the fact that junior officers are more liable to be wounded than men, he can say what steps the Government intend to take in the matter?

Mr. FORSTER

The disability pensions of officers now paid are in accordance with the recommendations of the Select Committee of this House, which examined the question and reported thereon at full length last autumn.

Major HUNT

Is my hon. Friend aware that in one case just lately a man sent down by the War Pensions Committee admitted that £150 a year was not enough for five persons to live on, but that he could not do anything, and if the War Office cannot do anything, does Lord Kitchener's Fund or any other fund allow officers to live in anything like decency and comfort?

Mr. FORSTER

My hon. and gallant Friend will remember that the Statutory Committee was appointed specially to deal with those cases of hardship when it lies outside the power of the War Office to deal with adequately under the regulations. The Statutory Committee is the proper body.

Major HUNT

How does that help a man if the Statutory Committee will not do anything? Is it not the Government's business to provide these officers with something like an adequate pension?

Mr. FORSTER

Perhaps my hon. and gallant Friend will draw the attention of the Statutory Committee to it.

74. Mr. BYRNE

asked the Secretary to the Local Government Board, as representing the Statutory Committee on Disablement, if he will state what is the number of soldiers, approximately, who have been discharged from the Army to their homes owing to the effects of un certifiable loss of balance, and how many similarly affected have been discharged direct to lunacy institutions; and what provision has been made in each case for their wives and families and other dependants?

Mr. FORSTER

The total number of such men discharged up to the end of August is 396, excluding cases in no way due to war service. I cannot give the hon. Member more detailed figures without an excessive amount of labour, but I may mention that many of these men who are sent to their homes are shortly afterwards sent to institutions. Any balance of pension not required for the cost of the man's maintenance is issuable to the wives and families.

Mr. BYRNE

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that some of these asylums are charging almost the total amount of the man's pension, and that the family is left penniless, and is any provision made for cases such as these?

Mr. FORSTER

I understand that as a rule the committees in charge of these institutions leave the family sufficient for maintenance. In a certain number of cases where there has been no arrangement, there has been hardship, but in cases such as these the local authorities are generally willing to forego all charges for the man's maintenance.

Mr. HOGGE

If we can bring cases in which we know that what is left out of the money is not enough for the wife and dependants, will the hon. Gentleman consider that?

Mr. FORSTER

My hon. Friend knows quite well that is a matter for the Statutory Comuittee.

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