HC Deb 30 November 1916 vol 88 cc603-4

(1) The Minister of Pensions may appoint such secretaries, officers, and servants as the Minister may, with the sanction of the Treasury, determine.

(2) There shall be paid, out of moneys provided by Parliament, to the Minister of Pensions, unless he holds another salaried office, such annual salary not exceeding two thousand pounds, and to the secretaries, officers, and servants of the Ministry such salaries or remuneration, as the Treasury may determine.

Sir H. DALZIEL

I beg to move, in Subsection (2), after the word "Pensions" ["Minister of Pensions"], to leave out the words "unless he holds another salaried office."

The Bill provides that a salary of £2.000 shall be given to the Minister of Pensions, and it is contemplated that the position of Minister of Pensions may in the future be amalgamated with some other Ministerial Department, but I submit that minimises the importance of this office at the very beginning. It seems to me, therefore, that the Clause will be much stronger without these words. I cannot congratulate the Government on the way they have gone about making provision for this office. I think that they ought to have boldly come forward with a proposal for a Labour Minister, associating pensions with his Department. As it is, I object to the view that this Ministry of Pensions is not going to remain an independent Ministry. If there is to be amalganiation later, we know that under any circumstances the Prime Minister, without any authority from Parliament and purely as a matter of arrangement between the different Ministers, will be able to deal with the matter according to circumstances as they arise making it necessary. I think the salary of this new Department ought to have been put upon the same basis as the salaries of the heads of other Departments. It seems to me that there has been a grudging spirit with regard to this Department in high places right from the beginning, and it ought to have been properly equipped, and the salary should have been equal to that given in other Departments.

Mr. DENNISS

Might I point out that these words infuse into the Clause something that is not intended at all, because if the Minister held another salaried office, say, of only £100 a year, as the words of the Clause read, he would get nothing at all I The salary is to be £2,000, but if he holds another salaried office, as I have said, with a salary only of £100 a year, he would get nothing. I put it to the Solicitor-General whether that is not right. I do not want to support the Amendment to leave out these words, but I am simply taking the opportunity to put that point.

Mr. HENDERSON

There may be an opinion in the Committee that the Clause is not properly drafted, but it has been the work of a Government draftsman who is not here, and I am not in a position to consult him as to why he included those words. I do not see that there is very much in it, but I am prepared to accept the Amendment on the condition that I shall have to consult the draftsman, and, if necessary, raise the question on the Report stage.

Sir H. DALZIEL

Let me say that it is not a question of drafting but of policy, and the draftsman must have been told to put the words in.

Mr. PRINGLE

There must be some point of substance in what my hon. Friend says, and if these words are omitted it will not be necessary to have a Supplementary Estimate on Monday.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.