HC Deb 09 November 1916 vol 87 cc518-23

(1) Section three of the Constabulary (Ireland) Act, 1908, which authorises an increase in the amount of pension that may be granted to the widow of a constable of the Royal Irish Constabulary in certain circumstances shall apply in the case of widows of constables of the Dublin Metropolitan Police in like manner as it applies in the case of widows of constables of the Royal Irish Constabulary.

(2) In calculating the amount of the pension allowance or gratuity that may be granted to a superintendent of inspector of the Dublin Metropolitan Police, or to the widow or children of such superintendent or inspector, any lodging allowance payable to the superintendent or inspector shall be treated as part of his annual pay.

(3) In calculating the amount of the weekly allowance that may be granted under Section one of the Irish Police (Naval and Military Service) Act, 1915, in respect of a married member of the Royal Irish Constabulary or Dublin Metropolitan Police who, being a reservist, has been called but, or, not being a reservist, has joined His Majesty's Naval or Military Forces for the purposes of the present War, the weekly amount which that member was receiving from police funds at the time of his being so called out or joining shall, as from the commencement of this Act, be computed as if the rates of pay authorised by this Act had been in force at that time, and as if any war bonus granted to the police force had then been payable, and the amount of any such weekly allowance may be altered so as to give effect to this provision.

(4) Paragraph (c) of Article 14 of the Second Schedule to the Constabulary and Police (Ireland) Act, 1883, which provides for the calculation of a pension, allowance or gratuity in certain cases on the basis of the average annual amount of pay received by a constable in the course of the three years next before the date of his death or retirement, or the injury or cause occasioning his death or retirement, instead of on the basis of his actual anual pay at that date, shall cease to have effect except where a constable has been promoted to a higher rank within such three years, or where a constable (not being incapacitated by infirmity of body or mind) retires before the thirty-first day of March nineteen hundred and nineteen.

(5) In the application of Sub-section (2) of Section three of the Act of 1914 to any pension, allowance or gratuity granted after the commencement of this Act, any reference to any Schedule to the Act of 1914 shall be construed as a reference to the corresponding Schedule to this Act, and any reference to the commencement of that Act shall be construed as a refer- ence to the commencement of this Act, but nothing in that Sub-section as so applied shall affect the operation of Section two of the Police (Emergency Provisions) Act, 1915.

Colonel CRAIG

I beg to move to leave the Sub-section, (4) Paragraph (c) of Article 14 of the Second Schedule to the Constabulary and Police (Ireland) Act, 1883, which provides for the calculation of a pension, allowance or gratuity in certain cases on the basis of the average annual amount of pay received by a constable in the course of the three years next before the date of his death or retirement, or the injury or cause occasioning his death or retirement, instead of on the basis of his actual annual pay at that date, shall cease to have effect. My hon. Friend (Sir J. Lonsdale) has asked me to put a question to the Chief Secretary. His reason for putting down the Amendment was simply to get from him a statement in order to allay the fears of certain members of the Royal Irish Constabulary with regard to this Subsection. They are not wholly aware of its legal meaning because it is. somewhat complicated, and a statement as to its meaning will save a tremendous amount of correspondence. Perhaps he will explain the reason of the Sub-section in such language that the constables themselves will be able to grasp it readily, and so save a great deal of trouble in the future.

Mr. DUKE

The Amendment is intended to give to the constables in both forces advantages which are already enjoyed by officers in respect of the computation of pension. It does not take away anything the men have got, but it does remove the restrictive effect of the provision in the Act of 1883, which is quoted in the Sub-Section. That provision was to the effect that the pension, allowance, or gratuity in certain cases was to be calculated on the basis of the average annual amount of pay received by a constable in the course of the three years next before the date of his death or retirement, or the injury or cause occasioning his death or retirement, instead of on the basis of his actual annual pay at that date. That provision excluded the actual annual pay. The object of the Amendment is to enable us to take the actual annual pay into account in deciding what the pension shall be.

Colonel CRAIG

In other words, it is a benefit.

Mr. DUKE

It is a benefit and not a disadvantage.

Colonel CRAIG

That is what I wanted to know from the right hon. Gentleman.

Mr. O'SHEE

May I point out that the limiting words at the end of the Sub-section from the word "except" take away a good deal from this alleged benefit? Undoubtedly the first part of the Sub-section does give a benefit by providing that the actual annual pay at the time shall be the basis of the pension. And then it goes on to say except where a constable has been promoted to a higher rank within such three years, or where a constable…retires before the thirty-first day of March, nineteen hundred and nineteen. I think the Chief Secretary ought to go a little further, and by leaving out that part of the Sub-section extend the benefit that he proposes to confer by the first part of the Sub-section. It would be very welcome if he does that. I think the basis of pension in the Army is the actual pay at the date when the pension accrues. Why a different rule should apply to the Royal Irish Constabulary I do not understand. I think the Chief Secretary ought to leave out these limiting words.

The CHAIRMAN

There is an Amendment next following which deals with that point.

Amendment negatived.

Mr. HAZLETON

I beg to move, in Sub-section (4), to leave out the words, except where a constable has been promoted to a higher rank within such three years, or where a constable (not being incapacitated by infirmity of body or mind) retires before the thirty-first day of March, nineteen hundred and nineteen. The object of this Amendment is to alter the basis of calculation of pensions of constables. The present basis was laid down in the Act of 1883, and it takes into consideration the average rate of pay of the three years immediately preceding the date of their retirement. During those three years they may have received an increase of pay; they may have received promotion in rank, but their pension is calculated not upon the basis of the higher rate of pay that they may possess at the date of their retirement, but of the rate of pay for the preceding three years, which may have been considerably lower. I would suggest in all earnestness on this Amendment that the Chief Secretary would consider the point I am putting. The allowances in connection with the higher officers of the two forces are pensionable. The allowances of the men are not pensionable. That is a distinction which we have tried to get the right hon. Gentleman to remove, but we have failed. I think he might very well take the fact into consideration that these allowances of the men are not taken into account when arriving at the amount of their pensions. The practice is a very old one, and there is no reason why it should be continued at the present time. If these men have earned promotion, and they have received an increase of pay, it is presumed under the law that they have deserved it. If they have deserved and earned an increase of pay, they might fairly be considered to have earned a pension based upon that increase of pay. If the Chief Secretary would bear in mind what is, I understand, the prevailing practice in connection with the Army or the Navy he would find a very good precedent for the course suggested in my Amendment. Take the case of a man who may be a captain in the Army or who may have an equivalent rank in the Navy. If he is promoted to major and in three months time he has got to retire, his pension, so far as I understand the position, is not the pension of a captain, but the pension of a major. Why you should go back over the rate of pay of the last three years in the case of these police constables in the Irish forces I fail entirely to see. Since the right hon. Gentleman will not make the concession we have pressed upon him in connection with taking the allowances of the men into calculation when settling the amount of their pensions, at least he ought to make this concession which I now propose, and by so doing remedy to some extent the injustice which is being done by his failure to persuade the Treasury to concede the other demand.

Mr. FIELD

I beg to second this Amendment. It only proves what I have said before in regard to these money payments. Surely, if this thing is done in England, we have a right to similar treatment in Ireland!

Mr. DUKE

The effect of the Amendment would be to induce an able-bodied man, who had received promotion and increased pay, to retire on pension earlier than he would otherwise do in order that he might reap the advantage which the Bill confers. He might reach the fixed age next week or next month and forthwith retire on the pension appropriate to that age. That does not seem reasonable. The matter has been considered, and those who advise me take the view that the mode in which this matter is dealt with here is at least as favourable as the mode which usually governs pensions, as indicated in the Superannuation Act. The change would be detrimental to the force. It would put a premium upon the retirement of able-bodied officers immediately they reached the higher grade of pay. For these reasons I cannot accept the Amendment.

Amendment negatived.

The following Amendment stood on the Paper in the name of Sir J. LONSDALE: