HC Deb 02 March 1916 vol 80 cc1272-5
Mr. CURRIE

I think this is a convenient opportunity to draw the attention of the Government to the opportunity open to them of rendering a very considerable service to the people of Scotland by developing the administrative side of one of the offices attached to the Court of Session there. I refer to the office of Accountant of Court. As a rule, when an officer of this kind is mentioned in connection with Estimates, it is with the intention of endeavouring to make some criticism or economy. None of the Members from Scotland, or other professional men who have occasion to do business with the present incumbent of the office, would desire to criticise him. On the contrary, it is because the administration of the office has been so sound for many years that I shall be glad if the Government can see their way to make a little more use of it, either permanently or if more easily done temporarily, or even for emergency purposes. The office is regulated by rules and regulations laid down, either by the judges of the Court of Session as a body, or by the Lord President of the Court, or perhaps by the Lord Advocate—I do not know. I think without legislation, but by some sort of administrative order, a useful purpose would be served if the powers of the Accountant of Court could be extended so as to enable him to supervise, and in some degree to manage, trust estates in Scotland.

I do not think it would be in order, and I do not for a moment intend to raise the general question of the institution of the office of Public Trustee in Scotland—however much I wish that could be done. But for the narrower purpose I may add that the Accountant of Court already has power of supervision and investment of trust estates. I think his powers might be stretched just a little further so that the large number of married soldiers who are appointed to be sent away from Scotland—many of whom must be anxious to appoint trustees—could appoint him. Only the other day the Government were looking for a trustee, or depository, of enemy funds in Scotland, and they naturally turned to the Accountant of Court and made use of him. It is a very great hardship that married soldiers, who must be anxious to make provision of this kind, should not have it made as easy as possible for them. Nothing is more difficult than for poor men to secure reliable, competent, and experienced trustees. Something of the kind is clamant in Scotland. If my suggestion were acted upon, very large numbers of men in Scotland would be very grateful to the Secretary of State. In Scotland we have the great advantage that there is practically no initial prejudice against this office to be overcome. Some years ago there was a feeling of the kind, but I believe that it has almost entirely disappeared. I think it must be acknowledged that the efforts that several Members for Scottish seats have made in this direction have resulted in the old prejudice being quite taken out of the way. Judging by the experience—the English successful experience of the Public Trustee, I think that such a development of the powers of the Accountant of Court would be extremely welcome.

Mr. DUNDAS WHITE

There is one point to which I should like to call the attention of the House. It would be a very great convenience, I am certain, to a number of our soldiers and sailors if facilities for the safe deposit of wills under a certain Scottish Act, with which my right hon. Friend the Lord Advocate is familiar, could be made more largely known and could be more widely advertised than now. A short time ago I asked a question as to the number of wills deposited under the provisions of that Act, and I found that it rarely ran into three figures a year. I think it was something less than twenty wills per year. In England also, under a corresponding provision of an old Act, the figures were somewhat more. In effect the facilities were not used at all. Then came the office of Public Trustee in England, and facilities were given by him. Those facilities were widely advertised, and wills which are deposited for safe keeping with him amount now to several thousands per year. That shows what can be done by letting the facilities and opportunities be known. There are a great many men on active service, as well as a great many other people, who would be glad to avail themselves of these facilities if they were brought to their notice as the Public Trustee has brought to the notice of the people in England the facilities given by his Department. I fully recognise what my hon. and learned Friend said about the discussion on the Public Trustee question being out of place. I shall be glad if it can be raised some time, because with the help of some of my hon. and learned Friends I brought in a Bill in several successive Sessions to deal with the matter. A great point is, of course, that the people should have someone whom they can nominate, so that they may put in their will: "I nominate 'So-and-so' as my executor and trustee." That "So-and-so" being some public official who is known by his corporate name. I think that is what the hon. Member has principally in view. I cannot say whether in any of the existing Statutes there is the power to enable testators to name the Accountant of Court in that way. I should rather doubt it. I cannot express an opinion. In any case, I think the whole subject is well worthy of the attention of my hon. and learned Friend.

The LORD ADVOCATE (Mr. Munro)

I venture to think, if I may say so, that both the manner and the time in which this subject has been brought up are a little unfortunate. My hon. Friend who first spoke did not communicate with me on the subject that he proposed to raise until I came into the House this afternoon. As it is manifest that many interests are involved, I think it is quite manifest also that I cannot give him a very full reply at so short notice. The time at which the matter has been brought up is also rather unfortunate, because what my hon. Friend was hinting at throughout his speech was obviously the desirability of putting upon the Accountant of Court in Scotland the duty of Public Trustee. Manifestly that cannot be done without legislation. This is not an appropriate time to discuss legislation. My hon. Friend seemed to suggest that what he desired might be done by administrative Order. Apparently what he had in his mind was that it could be done by an Act of Sederunt passed by the judges of the Court of Session. In the first place, the Accountant of Court is a statutory official who has statutory duties to perform, and any enlargement of those duties would obviously have to be in virtue of an Act of Parliament. I say no more about that. But so far as an Act of Sederunt, that has been suggested, is concerned, I would remind my hon. Friend that that matter is one simply and solely for the judges for the Court of Session to determine; one with which I have no concern at all and no right to interfere. Accordingly I am afraid, so far as the proposals which my hon. Friend put forward are concerned, they all involve, and necessarily involve, legislation. I cannot, therefore, appropriately discuss them on this occasion. I am afraid the same observation applies to what my hon. Friend behind me said. I think his suggestions, while deserving consideration, involve legislation, and accordingly I am again debarred from discussing them on this occasion.