HC Deb 06 July 1916 vol 83 cc1738-41

A police authority may make regulations with respect to the places where and the conditions under which persons may be permitted in any street or public place, within the police area to collect money or sell articles for the benefit of charitable or other purposes, and any person who-acts in contravention of any such regulation shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding forty shillings or in the case of a second or subsequent offence not exceeding five pounds.

Provided that—

  1. (a) regulations made under this Section shall not come into operation until they have been confirmed by the Secretary of State, and published for such time and in such manner as the Secretary of State may direct; and
  2. (b) regulations made under this Section shall not apply to the selling of articles in any street or public place when the articles are sold in the ordinary course of trade, and for the purpose of earning a livelihood, and no representation is made by or on behalf of the seller that any part of the proceeds of sale will be devoted to any charitable purpose.

Mr. KING

I beg to move, after the word "of" ["of any such regulation"], to insert the words "or fails to comply with." This is really a drafting Amendment which I hope the right hon. Gentleman will accept.

Mr. SAMUEL

This Amendment is not necessary, and, indeed, it is undesirable. The Clause as it stands makes it an offence to act in contravention of any such regulation. Anyone who fails to comply with the regulations must necessarily also act in contravention, and therefore the words are not necessary. Furthermore, the Bill as drafted corresponds exactly with the wording of an Act which was passed recently applying to Scotland, and if you put different words in this Bill it might give rise to the impression that the words in the Scottish Act were insufficient and were wrong, and, secondly, it is conceivable that litigation might ensue in consequence.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr. SAMUEL

I beg to move, at the end of the Clause, to add the following new Sub-section:

"(2) This section shall apply to Ireland with the following modifications:

  1. (a) references to the Secretary of State shall be construed as references to the Lord Lieutenant; and
  2. (b) references to a police authority shall as respects streets and public places within the Dublin Metropolitan Police district be construed as references to the Chief Commissioner of Police for that district; and as respects streets and public places not within that district, be construed as references to the Inspector-General of the Royal Irish Constabulary."

This Amendment is with the object of applying the Clause to Ireland. The Irish authorities represented to me that they would consider this Clause most useful.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. KING

I beg to move, after the Amendment last added, to insert the following new Sub-section:

"(2) In this Sectiona—

  1. (a) the expression 'street' includes any highway and any public bridge, road, lane, footway, square, court, alley, or passage, whether a thoroughfare or not; and
  2. (b) the expression 'public place' includes any public park, garden, or sea beach."

Mr. SAMUEL

I am prepared to accept the first part of the Amendment, including paragraph (a).

Mr. KING

This Amendment is really based upon the Children Act of 1908, with which the name of the right hon. Gentleman is so honourably connected. I understand that the second part to which he takes exception is equally based on that Act.

Mr. SAMUEL

The Amendment is really taken from the Public Health Act, which was put into the Children Act, if I remember rightly. The street definition which the hon. Member gives is an improvement and makes quite clear what is intended, but I am advised that the definition of "public place" is unnecessary on account of decisions of the Court, which have held that a public place means any place, whether private property or not, to which the public for the time being have access.

Mr. KING

I quite accept the explanation.

Question, "That the words ' (2) In this Section (a) the expression "street" includes any highway and any public bridge, road, lane, footway, square, court, alley, or passage, whether a thoroughfare or not,' be there inserted," put, and agreed to.

Question proposed, "That the Clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill."

Mr. WATT

Will the right hon. Gentleman inform us whether the provisions with regard to street collections are only for the duration of the War or are to be permanent?

Mr. SAMUEL

It is intended it should be a permanent provision. It is found to be exceedingly useful, and similar considerations will apply to the future. My right hon. Friend the Secretary for Scotland, no doubt with the approval of the hon. Member, has made this a permanent provision with regard to Scotland, and why should we be behind?

Question put, and agreed to.

Clause ordered to stand part of the Bill.