§ In order to unify the administration of such pensions, grants and allowances as are hereinafter mentioned there shall be a Minister of Pensions, who shall be appointed by His Majesty, and the Minister shall, during the continuance of the present War and for a perior of six months thereafter, be entitled to receive advice and assistance from the Parliamentary Secretary of the Admiralty, the Financial Secretary of the War Office, and the Parliamentary Secretary of the Local Government Board in respect of any matter on which such advice and assistance is requested by the Minister.
1795§ Lords Amendment: Leave out the words "during the continuance of the present War and for a period of six months thereafter."
§ Motion made, and Question proposed: "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."—[Mr. Arthur Henderson.]
§ Mr. HOGGEI beg to move "That this House doth disagree with the Lords Amendment."
I do not know whether Members have taken the trouble to look at the Lords Amendment. The House will, at any rate, remember that the House of Commons framed this Bill itself, and therefore we look with some jealousy to changes made in it in the other House if they are not essential changes and beneficial to the Bill. What the Lords propose to insert in this particular part of the Bill is to put back the three Parliamentary Secretaries to the three Departments as a junior consultative body with the Pensions Minister. What the House of Commons decided was that the Pensions Minister should, while the War lasts, take advantage of the advice which he could secure from these gentlemen, and that six months after the War these gentlemen should disappear and the Pensions Department go along on its own feet. I think, after the choice that has been made in regard to Pensions Minister, that the House has every confidence that the Pensions Minister will be able to conduct his own business, and that he should do that without having permanently associated with himself, or with any successor in that office, three gentlemen who, after the War is over, and particularly six months after the War, will have absolutely nothing to do with pensions except those which are reserved to them. You might as well suggest that the Pensions Minister should be associated with the Admiralty in the dispensation of Service pensions in the Admiralty, or that he should be associated with the Financial Secretary to the War Office in the dispensation of Service pensions to our soldiers. We have delimited the sphere of operations of those various officials, and unless my right hon. Friend (Mr. Henderson) has some better reason than that he has given why we should agree to the Lords Amendment I shall proceed to divide the House.
§ Question, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment," put, and agreed to.
1796§ Lords Amendment: After the word "Parliamentary"["the Parliamentary Secretary of the Admiralty"], insert the words "and Financial."
§ Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."—[Mr. Henderson.]
§ Mr. HOGGEThe Lords Amendments that we have in our hands refer to Bill 141, and the only Bill one could get from the Vote Office is marked 131. Can the right hon. Gentleman tell us which Secretary of the Admiralty is meant. There are two Secretaries to the Admiralty, the Parliamentary Secretary, and the Civil Lord; which do you mean?
§ Mr. HOGGEWhy do you call it "Parliamentary and Financial Secretary to the Admiralty"? That is a curious description of a Secretary. If it means the Financial Secretary to the Admiralty, the proper thing to do is to leave out "Parliamentary" and insert "Financial."
§ Lords Amendment agreed to.