HC Deb 15 March 1915 vol 70 cc1766-8
20. Mr. KING

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether, in determining the value of the existing interest of the holder of an ecclesiastical office under Schedule IV. (1) of the Welsh Church Act, 1914, the annual value of the interest is to be regarded as the value existing at the date of Disestablishment or the value of 1st January, 1913?

Mr. McKENNA

In determining the value of the existing interest of the holder of an ecclesiastical office under Schedule IV. (1) of the Welsh Church Act, 1914, the annual value of the interest is to be regarded as the value existing on 1st January, 1913.

Mr. KING

That being so, will not the value be considerably appreciated by any postponement of the Act?

Mr. McKENNA

No, Sir. The value will remain the same as the value which existed on 1st January, 1913.

Mr. KING

Will not the Tithe Rent-charge be appreciated by present circumstances, and will not that considerably appreciate, that is, considerably increase, the value of the interest?

Mr. McKENNA

As I understand, that will not be the case. If my hon. Friend will listen to the answer I will repeat it.

Mr. McKENNA

May I be allowed to make a personal statement? In reply to my hon. Friend (Mr. King) on the construction of the Welsh Church Act, I have some reason to think, owing to a point which was brought to my notice by my right hon. Friend (Mr. Ellis Griffith), that the construction put upon the Act by my hon. Friend is right, and that the point is by no means certain, therefore I should wish to be safeguarded as regards any answer which I gave to his question.

26. Mr. KING

asked the hon. Member for the Doncaster Division, as representing the Ecclesiastical Commissioners, if he will state the number of the incumbencies in Wales affected by the Welsh Church Act, 1914, on 1st January, 1913, and the aggregate net income of these incumbencies; the number of the incumbencies affected by the same Act on 18th September, 1914, and their aggregate net income, and the number of incumbencies affected by the same Act which are at present vacant?

Sir C. NICHOLSON

The best information in reply to the first part of this question is contained in the Return of the 7th July, 1913 (Command Paper No. 189). I have not the information for which the hon. Member asks in the latter parts of the question.

46. Mr. KING

asked the Prime Minister what steps were taken to consult all parties concerned before the introduction of the Welsh Church (Postponement) Bill; and whether it is the intention of the Government to press the Bill through all its stages even if it prove objectionable, and therefore contentious, to any section of this House?

The PRIME MINISTER

I did not myself take any part in these negotiations, and I was under the impression that, before the Bill was introduced, there had been consultation with all the parties concerned and an assent in principle to the compromise embodied in it. I regret to find that, so far as the Welsh Members are concerned, there has been a misunderstanding on this point, and I am going to ask them to meet me to-day. The Government believe the Bill to set up a reasonable and equitable modus vivendi, and in the hope of its securing general assent they will postpone the Second Reading till after the Adjournment.

Mr. BONAR LAW

May I ask the Prime Minister whether he intends to make any statement on the subject this afternoon, when it can be discussed?

The PRIME MINISTER

It would be possible to discuss it on the Motion for the Adjournment.

Mr. BONAR LAW

Does the right hon. Gentleman himself intend to make a statement?

The PRIME MINISTER

Certainly.

Mr. KING

As the principal parties in this connection were not previously consulted, will the Prime Minister withdraw the Bill and begin de novo?

Mr. ORMSBY-GORE

Arising out of the Prime Minister's answer, are we to understand that the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who is the Leader of the Welsh Liberal Party, was not consulted in these negotiations? Did the Chancellor of the Exchequer take no part in them?

The PRIME MINISTER

I did not say so.