§ 39. Mr. GINNELLasked the Chief Secretary for Ireland how many persons in Ireland have been imprisoned under the Defence of the Realm Act, and how many of them on the uncorroborated evidence of members of military, police, and naval forces?
§ The CHIEF SECRETARY for IRELAND (Mr. Birrell)The number of persons who have been sentenced to terms of imprisonment for offences under the Defence of the Realm Act in Ireland since the commencement of the War is forty. In twenty-three cases no civil witnesses were put forward on behalf of the Crown.
§ Mr. BIRRELLI cannot agree with the hon. Member in that. We keep them down to the smallest possible limits consistent with safety.
§ Mr. RONALD McNEILLMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he endorses the suggestion that naval, military, and police evidence is less valuable than civilian evidence?
§ Mr. BIRRELLI should be very sorry to say that the evidence given by soldiers, sailors, and policemen belongs to that class of evidence that could not be taken uncorroborated.
§ Mr. OUTHWAITEIs the circulation of the "Daily Mail" permitted in Ireland?
§ Mr. BIRRELLI believe the Irish people have that privilege.
§ 40. Mr. GINNELLasked whether there was any but police evidence of the charge on which Vincent Poole has been sentenced by a Dublin magistrate to six months' imprisonment; and whether, seeing that the Irish Courts have for some years refused to convict of a serious charge on uncorroborated police evidence, he will take any action to mitigate it?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe answers to both parts of the question are in the negative.
§ Mr. GINNELLWill the right hon. Gentleman state his reason for not intervening?
§ Mr. BIRRELLI think the evidence in that case is quite sufficient.
§ Mr. GINNELLPolice evidence?
§ Mr. BIRRELLCertainly.
§ 41 and 42. Mr. GINNELLasked (1) for what offence Sean Kilroy has been arrested and imprisoned in Dublin; if for an expression of his opinion on a public matter, what the words complained of are; if he has been tried, by what sort of Court and with what result; and where he now is; and (2) whether Mr. Sheehy Skeffington is now in prison under the Defence of the Realm Act; and, if so, will he state the charge and the words used if the offence consisted of a speech?
§ Mr. BIRRELLBoth prisoners are charged with making statements at meetings at Beresford Place, Dublin, calculated to discourage recruiting contrary to Regulation No. 27 of the Defence of the Realm (Consolidation) Regulations, 1914. Milroy's case was down for hearing before a Dublin 178 City magistrate, on the 2nd instant, but was adjourned for a week on the application of counsel for the prisoner, who is now in Mountjoy Prison. Sheehy Skeffington has not yet been placed on his trial. I am not prepared to give further information with regard to the trial of these men before it takes place.
§ Mr. GINNELLWill the right hon. Gentleman give any opportunity of comparing the words used by these two gentlemen with the words that have been allowed to be used in this country?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThat is a suggestion which I am sure his counsel will take full advantage of.
§ Mr. PRINGLEWould the right hon. Gentleman say whether in this case the prosecuting authorities were guided by the intention of the writers or speakers, or by the effects of their words?
§ Mr. BIRRELLIt is almost impossible to say whether any written words have any effect whatever. You have to define the grammatical construction to be placed upon the language, and decide the consequences.
§ Mr. KELLAWAYAre we to understand that whilst it is an offence in Ireland to endeavour to stop recruiting it is not an offence in this country?
§ Mr. BIRRELLMy obligation begins and ends with Ireland.
§ Mr. OUTHWAITEMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman why, if action is taken against individuals in Ireland who try to prevent recruiting, the circulation of the "Daily Mail" and other Harmsworth publications is permitted?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe Chief Secretary is not responsible. [HON. MEMBERS: "Yes, in Ireland."] The hon. Member asked why measures are not taken in England, and the Chief Secretary is not responsible for that.
§ 43. Mr. GINNELLasked under what Statute the police in Ireland are now threatening women and girls with imprisonment unless they give information about their male relatives satisfactory to the police; and if this conduct is in excess of instructions what steps he will take, and when, to have it discontinued?
§ Mr. BIRRELLAs the police in Ireland are not exercising pressure of the nature suggested, the second part of the question does not arise.
§ Mr. LYNCHMay I ask the right hop. Gentleman what happens to a man in Dublin who is suspected of being a suspect?
§ Mr. GINNELLWill the right hon. Gentleman inform the House on what information he denies the allegation contained in this question?
§ Mr. BIRRELLOn the best possible information.
§ Mr. GINNELLPolice information only?
§ Mr. BIRRELLNot at all.