HC Deb 26 July 1915 vol 73 cc2088-92

(1) In the application of this Act to Scotland, "the Secretary for Scotland" shall be substituted for "the Local Government Board," "town council" and "town councillors" shall be substituted for "borough council" and "borough councillors," respectively, "municipal register" shall be substituted for "local government register of electors."

Nothing in Section 1 of this Act shall operate to continue any councillor in the office of bailie beyond the date at which he would in ordinary course have retired as a councillor.

(2) In the application of this Act to Ireland, "the Local Government Board for Ireland" shall be substituted for "the Local Government Board."

Courts shall be held in Ireland by County Court judges or revising barristers, as the case may be, for the revision under the Juries (Ireland) Acts, 1871 to 1894, of jurors' lists in the present year, at such times and places as may be fixed by the Lord Chancellor of Ireland, notwithstanding that no Courts are to be held in the present year for the revision of the register of Parliamentary voters.

Mr. HEALY

I beg to move, in Sub-section (2), after the word "or" ["County Court judges or revising barristers"], to insert the words "in the county of Dublin and the county of the city of Dublin by."

I move this with great reluctance. There are three gentlemen who receive a considerable salary which we have refused the revising barristers of England for practically doing nothing—

Mr. HOGGE

Have I not an Amendment which comes before this?

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Whitley)

I under-stood the hon. Gentleman did not intend to move any more Amendments.

10.0 p.m.

Mr. HOGGE

I did not give any such instructions. I do not want to make a speech; I merely want an explanation. The office of bailie is a Scottish office, and there is some concern in Scotland as to whether this will apply to the re-election of the Lord Provost or Provost at the end of his term of three years. If the Secretary of Scotland will say it does not so apply, I do not propose to move it.

Question proposed, in Sub-section (1), after the word "of" ["in the office of bailie"] to insert the words "Lord Provost or Provost or."

Mr. WATT

Will the right hon. Gentleman also indicate why an exception is made in the case of the office of bailie?

The LORD ADVOCATE (Mr. Munro)

Perhaps I may be allowed to reply. The explanation is very simple. Clause 1 postpones the date of retirement of every councillor for one year. If my hon. Friend will be good enough to look at the Town Councils (Scotland) Act, 1900, he will find that as regards a bailie he remains a bailie until he retires from the council, and unless express provision accordingly were made to the contrary a bailie would be continued as a bailie for an extra year, which is not thought desirable. Accordingly the case of the bailie is dealt with specially in the Scottish Clause. With regard, however, to the case of Lord Provost or Provost, he holds office under the same Statute to which I have referred for a period of three years, and the Bill accordingly does not affect his position at all.

Sir G. YOUNGER

On this point I should like to ask the right hon. Gentleman—or perhaps I ought to address the question to the President of the Local Government Board—whether in applying this Clause to Scotland no interference whatever is intended with officers having regular appointment and regular salaries performing either work for the county council—

The CHAIRMAN

We are only dealing now with Lord Provosts and Provosts.

Sir G. YOUNGER

Then might I ask when I can put that question?

Mr. WATT

May I ask if this Sub-section is intended to avoid the possibility of a Lord Provost or Provost remaining in the office after ceasing to be a councillor under this Act? Perhaps the Lord Advocate will indicate if it is to avoid the evil of a bailie continuing to be a bailie after he has ceased to be a councillor; of a provost continuing to be a provost after ceasing to be a councillor; and of a lord provost continuing to be a lord provost after he has ceased to be a councillor?

Mr. BOOTH

I have always been told as a southerner that "once a bailee always a bailie," and this is the first time by specific words we are indicating that is not so. Occasionally I have had the privilege of attending certain functions in Scotland, and you have to be very careful to address these people as bailie.

Mr. HOGGE

I ask leave to withdraw my Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr. HEALY

I beg to move, in Subsection (2), after the word "or" ["County Court judges or revising barristers"], to insert the words "in the county of Dublin or the county of the city of Dublin by."

I admit that the words "revising barristers" are necessary, because in the county of Dublin and the county of the city of Dublin they discharge other duties. The object I have in mind is to make it clear that no new revising barristers would be appointed. I am moving this as a matter of precaution, and I think these words will make the point clear.

Mr. BIRRELL

I quite agree that those words ought to be inserted, and I accept them.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. HEALY

I beg to move, in Subsection (2), to leave out the words "as the case may be." It is necessary to omit these words.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. HEALY

I beg to move, in Subsection (2), after the word "times" ["such times and places"], to insert the words "not later than the 15th of November."

The Bill proposes to give them until the 25th October for this work, but I propose to extend that period to the 15th November.

Amendment agreed to.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill."

Sir G. YOUNGER

I wish to know if this Bill in any way interferes with the regular assessors who have to do the whole of the valuation as well as the registration work in Scotland?

Mr. LONG

Certainly not. It only deals with the work of registration pure and simple.

Mr. WATT

I should like to have an answer from the Lord Advocate as to the meaning of the words, "Nothing in Section 1 of this Act shall operate to continue any councillor in the office of bailie beyond the date at which he would in ordinary course have retired as a councillor." When the Amendment dealing with, the lord provost was moved the hon. Member for East Edinburgh (Mr. Hogge) intervened as he has an unfortunate habit of intervening. Will the Lord Advocate kindly explain these words?

Mr. MUNRO

I am sorry if I did not make myself clear. I endeavoured to explain that the reason is to prevent a bailie from having an extra year of office. As I said before, so far as the provost or lord provost is concerned, his term of office is not affected.

Question put, and agreed to.