§ Motion made, and Question proposed, "That a sum, not exceeding £235,000, be granted to His Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1916, for the Payment of Grants towards the Cost of the Extension of Sanatorium Benefit to the Dependants of Insured Persons under the National Insurance Act, 1911, and of the Treatment of Tuberculosis generally." [NOTE.—£150,000 has been voted on account.]
§ Mr. HOGGEI do not know whether the right hon. Gentleman in charge of the Vote can give me the information I desire. As he knows, this sum of £387,000 is for the purpose of distribution in respect of 1034 contributions which are made by the various localities themselves with regard to the provision of sanatoria for consumptive patients under the national insurance scheme. Can he give us any information as to the distribution of this money, so as to illustrate the effort that is being made by the local authorities in each part of the United Kingdom? Healthy competition between all these localities is a useful thing in speeding up the provision of these very necessary buildings. I should like to know, before we actually agree to the Estimate, what is actually being done.
§ Sir J. D. REESI sincerely hope that every possible economy will be made in the expenditure under this head. The Committee cannot forget that it was due to this legislation, which is the chief example of Socialistic finance—
§ The CHAIRMANI must remind the hon. Member that we are in Committee of Supply. He must not criticise legislation in this Committee, but must concern himself solely with administration.
§ Sir J. D. REESI beg your pardon, Sir, I heard you give the same ruling to the hon. Baronet (Sir F. Banbury), and I did not intend to go further than to express the hope that as the expenditure under this head is so enormous and so much larger than was expected when the Act was passed, that every possible care will be taken in administration to keep down expenditure in this critical year.
§ Mr. A. WILLIAMSI venture to suggest that this critical year, when we need all the physical force we can get for the support of the cause of our country, is of all years the one in which the health of the people ought to be carefully safeguarded. While we are in favour of economies wherever real economies can be effected, it is no real economy, least of all in a year such as this, to avoid spending money which is necessary for the maintenance of the health of the people.
§ Mr. MONTAGUIt would be an act of discourtesy not to attempt some reply to my hon. Friends, but they had not given me any sort of notice that they were going to raise this particular question.
§ Mr. MONTAGUNor is it mine. I will do my best to give them the information 1035 they desire. It does not necessarily follow, as on another Vote my right hon. Friend the Secretary for Scotland said this afternoon, that money voted will be spent. Every effort will be made to keep the expenditure upon these matters as low as is consistent with our statutory obligations, having regard to the general need for the most stringent economy during the time of war. If my hon. Friends will look at the Vote as published they will see there is a decrease this year, compared with last year, of £95,000. I am afraid I have not the information for which the hon. Member for East Edinburgh {Mr. Hogge) asks. There is a note published under the Estimate which it was hoped would give him the information he would require, so far as we were able to anticipate it. I will ask the Insurance Department and the Local Government Board if they can give him some sample estimates of the kind he desires.
§ Mr. HOGGEI am very much obliged to my right hon. Friend. It is only fair to himself to recognise that he cannot answer all the questions put to him, but could he not send the Junior Lord of the Treasury seated on that bench to those who represent these different Departments, and who know all about these things, to get them to come here and give the information to the Committee? The House of Commons have given the Government three days out of Supply, and the Government have put down every Vote to-day. Why should they leave the Financial Secretary to the Treasury to apologise for each of the Ministers one after the other. That is not treating the Committee fairly. Some of us desire to have information upon a number of points, and surely in this Coalition Government there are Under-Secretaries enough to spare to come and answer the questions of hon. Members on these points.
§ The COMPTROLLER of the HOUSEHOLD (Mr. Charles Roberts)I understand that the hon. Member wanted some explanation in regard to the working of this scheme. I think I can give a full explanation on that point if he really desires it.
§ Mr. ROBERTSI was not in the Chamber when the hon. Member spoke.
§ Mr. ROBERTSI am not quite certain that I know the exact point he raised.
§ Mr. ROBERTSI think I know the facts about this Vote. In fact, I explained them rather fully in the speech I made in dealing with the Estimates. These Grants are being used at the present time for soldiers discharged suffering from tuberculosis. An arrangement has been made that soldiers so discharged should vacate the military hospitals and should immediately be transferred to sanatoria or other residential institutions. I believe all this money is being used subject to that scheme. It is a scheme which undoubtedly will have the sympathy of the House of Commons. We are using this money through the insurance committees, who, I think, are finding a sum of £10 per head for the benefit of these soldiers. A very good work is being done under this arrangement.
§ Mr. WATTCan the hon. Gentleman explain how it is that £95,000 less is being spent this year? In face of the scheme he has just adumbrated one would have anticipated that the expenses would have gone up.
§ Mr. ROBERTSWe are applying this Grant with great economy. As a matter of fact, this scheme for the benefit of tuberculous soldiers is for the moment holding the field. The other Grants are being used with great economy, except in so far as they are being applied for the benefit of soldiers.
§ Sir J. D. REESIs a number of new-buildings being put up?
§ Mr. ROBERTSI think not. The arrangement is that the existing sanatoria are taking over the soldiers suffering from consumption, and places are being found for these soldiers in the existing sanatoria and residential institutions.
§ Mr. TIMOTHY DAVIESDo I understand that these Grants are being used entirely for soldiers? If so, what has become of the civil population previously in these institutions? Does the hon. Gentleman say that they are being used entirely for soldiers suffering from consumption?
§ Mr. ROBERTSNo, Sir, I did not say so. Places are found in the existing 1037 sanatoria according as beds are available. They are not entirely devoted to them. The insurance committees make such arrangements as best they can.
§ Mr. A. WILLIAMSWill my hon. Friend give an assurance that, although this is a time of war, whatever is really necessary to fight this white scourge of consumption will be done, and that he will not be deterred from doing what is really necessary in the matter?
§ Mr. ROBERTSYes, Sir, I can give that assurance.
§ Question put, and agreed to.