§ Motion made, and Question proposed, "That a sum, not exceeding £15,000, be granted to His Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1916, for the Salaries and other Expenses of Temporary Commissions, Committees, and Special Inquiries." [NOTE.—£20,000 has been voted on account.]
§ Mr. HOGGEThere is a point on this Vote of some importance to Scotland. On page 41 there are certain salaries, travelling expenses, and so forth for the Housing (Scotland) Commission. That Commission was appointed a very considerable time ago, and it was created in such a way that few Scottish Members of this House were put on it owing to the fact that we were engaged in party controversies here. I understand that this Commission has covered the ground in Scotland, and has accumulated all the facts with regard to housing. In our large cities in Scotland this question in particular is a very acute one, and so far we have seen no evidence of the results of this Commission. Consequently, in Scotland we are beginning to wonder whether this is a permanent Commission, and whether it is ever going to submit a report or not. I see there is a sum of £918 down for salaries, £500 for travelling expenses, £75 for shorthand writing, and £50 for incidental expenses, making £1,543 in all, or as much as the salary of an Under-Secretary of State, and all this is being expended on a Housing Commission which in ordinary circumstances ought to have reported long ago. Before we agree to this Vote I should like the Secretary for Scotland to give us some explanation. I apologise to the right hon. Gentleman for not giving him notice, but the reason is that, as he knows, the Vote was only put down yesterday and hon. Members have not had time to examine the Vote; otherwise I should have given him the usual notice. I know the right hon. Gentleman is acquainted with the facts, and he will not 1024 be annoyed at being called upon now to give his colleagues some information as to how this matter stands and when we may expect this report.
The SECRETARY for SCOTLAND (Mr. McKinnon Wood)This Royal Commission had nearly finished taking evidence when the War broke out. I cannot obtain any information as to when they expect to report. They explain to me that many members of the Committee had been engaged in recruiting and other work connected with the War, and that has interfered with the work of the Commission. With regard to the nature of the Commission, they are just the type of men who would be very much occupied with the War, and that is the reason they give for the delay.
§ Mr. MORTONCan the Secretary for Scotland say whether he can reply to this question before the present Session ends? The right hon. Gentleman very properly says that he has no opportunity of getting information as to when this Royal Commission may be expected to report. He has told us that they practically finished taking evidence a year before the War broke out, but can he say whether we shall get the report of this Commission before the end of this Session?
§ Mr. PRINGLEUnder the circumstances, this Commission is quite useless. We now have a completely changed situation, and it is very improbable that this Commission will do anything during the course of the War, and it is equally certain that at the end of the War all the conditions in relation to housing in Scotland will be changed, and all the doings of this Commission will be out of date. Consequently, I suggest to the right hon. Gentleman that he should suspend the Commission, because their report will be quite useless, except as an historical document. In those circumstances, why should we be spending money in these times on a useless Royal Commission? Surely it would be better for the right hon. Gentleman to suspend the Commission altogether and, afterwards, if circumstances justify the reviving of the Commission at the end 1025 of the War, we could have another inquiry into the new conditions, so that a report might be produced which would be up to date and be of some use to the Executive as to what is necessary.
Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTTI presume that, at the present time, all Departments and all channels of expenditure have been scrutinised carefully and closely with a view to seeing what economies can be effected. Here is a case which my hon. Friend has already pointed out in which considerable expenditure is now being incurred upon a result which cannot be useful. I think much more useful results would be achieved if the investigations were conducted when the situation becomes normal again. Cannot we have a reply as to whether this point has been considered, either by the Minister who represents the Scottish Office or the Minister who represents the Treasury, and who is supposed to keep a vigilant eye on these matters?
§ Mr. BOOTHI am a little loth to intervene in a purely Scotch debate, but information has reached me lately about this matter which inclines me to support the hon. Member for North-West Lanark (Mr. Pringle). Owing to the transfer of labour to a town like Greenock, the housing conditions which were bad before are hopelessly irreconcilable now. It is a wonder the people are not all driven to drink as a means of forgetting the deplorable conditions in which they live. It is largely owing to the action of the Government in drafting hundreds and thousands of people into that town without the slightest consideration as to their housing. At the present time we are forming, under recent emergency legislation, controlled areas with regard to the drink supply, and that will probably obtain during the War. I am hoping that valuable information will be derived from that source, and that when the period of the War is over those who have been administering this particular matter may be able to give very valuable opinion and advice to this Commission. It does seem to me, therefore, that it would be more serviceable to the country to save the money now and to have all these facts brought before them at the end of the War.
Mr. McKINNON WOODThat is what the Royal Commission has done; it has suspended its operations for the time being, and of course the expenses which were estimated for are not being incurred.
Mr. McKINNON WOODThese Estimates were made some time ago, and my hon. Friend must not assume that because a certain sum appears on the Estimates it is being spent. If there is any expenditure going on which is unnecessary, I quite agree that we ought to look into it. My own understanding was that no expenditure was going on; certainly no expenditure of the kind I have mentioned. If there is any expenditure going on which can be stopped, it is a matter which I am sure my right hon. Friend will be very glad to consider, and I shall be very glad myself to inquire into it. I cannot agree that the results of the investigations of this Commission will be thrown away. Of course, the case mentioned by the hon. Member for Pontefract (Mr. Booth) is one that suggests that it would be a good thing if this Royal Commission were kept in being, adding to its previous investigations by inquiring into such cases, where the conditions, of course, have been greatly affected by the War. The state of housing in that particular town has given us some concern. I think it would be well if this Royal Commission remained in being, spending little, and concluded its labours after the War.
§ Mr. WHITEHOUSEI think that it would be very undesirable if the Secretary for Scotland were to assume that the Scottish Members as a body desired to see this Royal Commission on the housing conditions suppressed. I am quite sure that the Scottish Members are very sensible of the gravity of the problem, and are aware that it is as urgent to-day as ever it was. It would certainly be a far better proposition if we had the Report, which has been already drafted, and if the Commission were kept in being with a view of making a Supplementary Report if it were thought desirable. I would like to point out to the right hon. Gentleman and to my hon. Friend's that the War will not affect the main facts that the Commission has already collected. The War will not turn a one-roomed house into a house with a greater number of rooms. The War will not make insanitary dwellings sanitary dwellings. I am very sensible indeed of the fact that despite the War everything that can be done by administration should be done to rectify the more serious part of the housing problem in Scotland. I 1027 therefore hope that the right hon. Gentleman will urge the Royal Commission to present its Report, and will not speedily assent to the dissolution of the Commission in view of the expenditure on the War.
§ Question put, and agreed to.